Dogfight rules

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Tupper
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Dogfight rules

Postby Tupper » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:58 pm

I'm a bit confused by the dogfighting rules.

1. If initiating a dogfight is a substantial action, how does a fighter pilot actually attack? Isn't their action used by the dogfighting (unless they didn't initiate the dogfight).

2. If the bonus/penalty to hit lasts until the end of the round, then winning a dogfight against someone with higher initiative seems a bit pointless. They will have already attacked before it kicks in.

3. The dogfighting described in space combat alludes to dogfight rolls being resolved at the start of the round, rather than on a pilot's initiative... is this how things are supposed to work in vehicle combat? It's alluded that space dogfights are just using standard vehicle combat.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:04 pm

Tupper wrote: I'm a bit confused by the dogfighting rules.
We all are...
Tupper wrote: 1. If initiating a dogfight is a substantial action, how does a fighter pilot actually attack? Isn't their action used by the dogfighting (unless they didn't initiate the dogfight).
Dogfighting starts automatically as soon as you are close enough, there is no action to initiate.

Tupper wrote: 2. If the bonus/penalty to hit lasts until the end of the round, then winning a dogfight against someone with higher initiative seems a bit pointless. They will have already attacked before it kicks in.
I assume both roll at the same time, at the beginning of the round.

Tupper wrote: 3. The dogfighting described in space combat alludes to dogfight rolls being resolved at the start of the round, rather than on a pilot's initiative... is this how things are supposed to work in vehicle combat? It's alluded that space dogfights are just using standard vehicle combat.
I assume so.

A spacecraft dogfight is somewhere between spacecraft combat and vehicle combat, somewhat undefined.
Tupper
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby Tupper » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:07 pm

Great answers. Thanks a bunch. I feel a bit less foolish for being confused by the rules!
ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:21 am

The moment aggro starts on either side, is when a dog fight begins. Ambushes help one side at first.
arcador
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby arcador » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:36 am

I remember reading on a few spots that one of the ships can escape the dogfight.

However, how is that possible, and when to your interpretations? Is it really possible if the enemy is faster? Also, I assume, at best, if possible at all, it will give 1 round (6 min) before the enemy catches on.
Condottiere
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby Condottiere » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:25 pm

You escape by outrunning everyone else. Or everything.
Tom Kalbfus
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Wed May 09, 2018 3:55 am

Interesting, lets say you have two ships, one is chasing the other and firing its laser trying to shoot it down, and their is a planet ahead, both ships are heading toward that planet, and they guy in front is thinking, that he can possibly lose his pursuer if he gets down close to the ground and weaves in and around some of those mountains on the planet once inside the atmosphere, or maybe he can lose his opponent in a cloud bank. The problem is, both ships are pointed towards the planet, both ships are accelerating towards the planet, and the ship in front is trying to evade his pursuers, so he has his maneuver drive throttled to the max to put the maximum amount of distance between himself and the ship behind him that is firing its lasers. Here is the problem: In order to get close to the planet, the ship in front has to slow down if it wants to do that tricky maneuvering around the mountain peaks to lose his pursuers, and you know what than means, he has to turn his ship around 180 degrees and fire his maneuvering rockets so his ship slows down so he can safely enter the atmosphere without burning up or impacting on the surface and making a crater, but if he does that, he closes his distance with his pursuer rather rapidly. How would you resolve this situation?
baithammer
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby baithammer » Wed May 09, 2018 11:30 am

What is often forgotten is the need to reserve thrust for evasion, you won't be going full tilt when your engaged unless your trying to escape or maintaining engagement.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed May 09, 2018 1:43 pm

You really have to play it out with a vector system.

When you start decelerating to match vector with the planet you leave the pursuer two basic choices:
1) Start to decelerate to match vector with the planet too.
2) Continue to accelerate to overtake as fast as possible and force combat before you reach the planet. This only leaves a short combat before the pursuer overshoots.

The pursuer has to decide if a few shots are enough to disable your ship, or go for a slow shootout but risk losing your ship in the atmosphere.

A lot would depend on what vectors the ships start with.
paltrysum
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby paltrysum » Wed May 09, 2018 2:50 pm

What vector system are you using?
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AnotherDilbert
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed May 09, 2018 4:29 pm

If I absolutely must use a vector system I generally use one-dimensional vectors, i.e. only range (roughly like CT Starter).

I don't use any tabletop approximation, but simply Velocity = at & Distance = at²/2.
Condottiere
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby Condottiere » Wed May 09, 2018 8:50 pm

Image

Planets move.

The movement mechanics allow you to convert thrust to running in place.

But breaking is the same as acceleration, though in the other direction.

Once you turn your thrusters around, your opponent can calculate how fast you're slowing down; I think you could surprise him if you have iniative and light up the afterburners.
paltrysum
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby paltrysum » Thu May 10, 2018 5:10 am

To answer my own question: Brilliant Lances presented a pretty good vector-based rules set. I wonder if some of it can be put to use in MgT2. Hmm. I'll have to dig up my copy.
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Sat May 12, 2018 10:10 pm

Tupper wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:58 pm
I'm a bit confused by the dogfighting rules.

1. If initiating a dogfight is a substantial action, how does a fighter pilot actually attack? Isn't their action used by the dogfighting (unless they didn't initiate the dogfight).

2. If the bonus/penalty to hit lasts until the end of the round, then winning a dogfight against someone with higher initiative seems a bit pointless. They will have already attacked before it kicks in.

3. The dogfighting described in space combat alludes to dogfight rolls being resolved at the start of the round, rather than on a pilot's initiative... is this how things are supposed to work in vehicle combat? It's alluded that space dogfights are just using standard vehicle combat.
You get two dogs and you let them have at it!
;)
Condottiere
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Re: Dogfight rules

Postby Condottiere » Sun May 13, 2018 8:31 pm

Image

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