High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

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middenface
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High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby middenface » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:51 am

PG 36 High Burn Thrusters - talks about them, just neglects to detail important things like weight, cost, rules etc etc

PG 88 Scoundrel has them, but no good for 2e.

Terrible omission methinx?

Does there exist an official errata list yet ???, preferably as a PDF?
Same for the Core book, courtesy would dictate that any change should be cataloged and listed.
Other companies manage it.
Ideal us that have the hard copies that we did not buy from DTRPG.
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Annatar Giftbringer
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:58 am

This is easily mounted on a ship by adding an additional reaction drive
Sounds like you just use a regular reaction thruster from High Guard p.14, only difference is that it’s used alongside the main thrusters, rather than being the main thruster...
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby baithammer » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am

Its explained in the description that the Highburn thruster is just a r-drive usually coupled with a small fuel load in order to increase total thrust for short bursts.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby Condottiere » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:00 pm

I liked the last iteration, which synchronized wonderfully with microcraft; sure, it only worked for an hour at a time and needed a cooldown period, so I installed two running off the same gas tank.

1. The new variant I think is twenty times bigger and thirstier.

2. How does this integrate with inertial compensation?

You need an official working example to figure out how this works.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby middenface » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:33 pm

baithammer wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am
Its explained in the description that the Highburn thruster is just a r-drive usually coupled with a small fuel load in order to increase total thrust for short bursts.
Still rather vague and the Scoundrel version was far superior.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:39 pm

This might not be official, but as close as we can come:
Nerhesi wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:19 am

And now, for my entry, the 40-ton "Groupie"

  • Interceptor 40-ton Space Cost Power
    Hull Closed Structure, Reinforced -40 2 8
    Armour Bonded SuperDense (15) 4.8 2.4
    M-Drive Thrust 9 - TL13 BUDGET/INCREASED SIZE 3.96 5.94 36
    PowerPlant TL12 - 60 power 4 4
    PP Fuel 1 0
    Reaction Drive TL14 - 16 Thrust 12.8 3.2
    Reaction Fuel TL14 - 5 turns 6.4 0
    Cockpit 1.5 0.01
    Tachyon Cannon TL14 BUDGET/INCREASED SIZE 5.5 7.5 12
    Electronics Basic 0 0
    Computer/15 TL13 0 2
    Evade/2 0 2
    Fire Control/3 0 6
    Totals -0.04 hull remaining 35.05 total cost 56 power used

The first thing we can all agree is on is how terrible I am at posting spreadsheets online. I have no idea how to.


The second is how disgustingly cheap yet effective this craft is and it's sole purpose. A super cheap fighter deterrent. The purpose of this craft is to provide a very effective anti-fighter Fighter. It uses effective weaponry and dedicates thrust purely defensive dog-fighting. It costs 35 MCr only with all weaponry and software included. I attempted to be devious by purchasing budget Manoeuver drives and Tachyon Cannons.

Note 9 G M-drive + 16 G R-drive = 25 G acceleration:
Nerhesi wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:26 am
While super cheap.. they may also succeed in attacking enemy ships if the battle makes it to within Long range - at which point they can immediately burn 1 turn worth of 25 thrust to become negative groupies of the enemy.. hopefully they have their own groupies to counter.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby Reynard » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:54 pm

See that button next to your maneuver console marked 'NITRO TURBO'? Yeah, that's the High Burn Thruster. My pirate oriented vessels use that all the time for the cheetah chase and pounce.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby middenface » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:58 pm

There's a Spaceballs quote in there...

I wonder, perhaps some sort of limited Grav drive booster is need, seems odd to strap on a chemical reaction drive engine to a grav powered ship...
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:10 pm

Arguing about magic.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby Condottiere » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:02 pm

More like, why not just add more manoeuvre drives to get that extra boost?

They're half the size.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby Reynard » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:53 am

Maneuver craps out at 9g at TL 13. Reaction drives go up to 16g at TL 12 and adds to the maneuver Gs. Must be something about reaction augmenting reactionless thrust and two maneuver drives don't. A High Burn Thruster also augments a main reaction drive.

I have no complaint about Rocket Assisted Booster Systems for short term duties. Fighters seem to like it.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby baithammer » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:40 am

Reaction drives trade high gs for limited fuel.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby middenface » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:43 am

ShawnDriscoll wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:10 pm
Arguing about magic.
Irrelevant as usual Shaun...
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby Condottiere » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:00 pm

I think one reason inertial compensation never was an issue until now, was because there was an absolute cap at six gees, which is survivable without an artificial field neutralizing inertia.

This is a science, if pseudo, based game, not magic, so you need a rational why something works.

The other aspect was that each additional acceleration factor required three percent of volume, which made speed very much a compromise between protection and firepower.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby Sigtrygg » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:17 pm

I think Shawn has a good point.

The maneuver drive based on gravitic principles is magic technology, it can do whatever we want.

The reaction drive is supposed to be some sort of rocket - unfortunately the g rating and fuel duration of said rocket defies every law of physics we know about - therefore even the MgT reaction drives are magic; there has to be sort of inertial mass reduction thing going on.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:31 pm

MgT does not do detail such as how, or if, Inertial Compensators work. LBB2 contained no mention of acceleration compensation either.

We can assume than acceleration compensation exist and "just works", or make house-rules... The compensator rules from FFS seems reasonable.



At a guess High-Burn Thrusters were introduced in Scoundrel as a cool thing without considering the consequences.

It's not until MgT2 with cumulative 16 G rockets that the consequences becomes really problematic. Especially as fighters almost require them to close in to dogfighting range in this edition.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby Reynard » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:41 pm

I thought HGTs were added because no one would stop crying their ships were too slow. Same thing when alternative FTL systems were added.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:55 pm

Sigtrygg wrote: The maneuver drive based on gravitic principles is magic technology, it can do whatever we want.
It's a science fiction game, not a fantasy game. Just because we introduce some imaginary technology does not mean we have to suspend all known physics wholesale. As Condottiere puts it:
Condottiere wrote: This is a science, if pseudo, based game, not magic, so you need a rational why something works.

Sigtrygg wrote: The reaction drive is supposed to be some sort of rocket - unfortunately the g rating and fuel duration of said rocket defies every law of physics we know about ...
Not really, we just have to expel the reaction mass with enough velocity. Current chemical rockets can't do that, but there is no basic physical reason that makes it impossible.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby Sigtrygg » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:06 pm

Doing the maths - to get the performance of the MgT reaction engines you are pushing out reaction mass at greater than c.
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Re: High Guard 2e Missing Component Details?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:07 pm

Reynard wrote: I thought HGTs were added because no one would stop crying their ships were too slow.
Strapping a booster rocket to your ship to make accelerate faster isn't unreasonable. Ignoring the resulting inertial effects on the other hand...

Reynard wrote: Same thing when alternative FTL systems were added.
I assumed that was to support other franchises from the same basic rules, like Judge Dredd.

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