Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby Bardicheart » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:20 pm

Old School wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:17 pm
In terms of building a sustainable empire, a population base is definitely key, so I agree that Pourne, Torpol, and Clark are good candidates - population, close by, and decent tech level.

A bit farther afield, Vorito has the largest population and and a half built class A starport. Umemii and Iilgan are possible population bases as well. Cordan is an unknown - it's official population is only the ruling class. The true population is never actually described. Tech World is also a wild card - no population, but the descriptions make it clear that it is full of robot factories.
Good points. My focus on Pourne (in particular) and Clark and Torpol were also due to their immediate proximity. With many ships being only Jump 1 or Jump 2 capable, those are all in easy reach and they're also likely to be targets of an Aslan ihatei (which I finally spelled correctly LOL). So strategically they're important for their populations, world resources and their geographic proximity. After that I'm sure we could debate a wide range of strategies as to where to move next and I doubt there's any single perfect strategy at that point. On Techworld, we are told in the Trojan Reach description that it has a sophont population (mostly human) of about 4000 and about 1 million robots and rising. That differs from previous descriptions which pegged the world population at about 80 IIRC.
Asim is an ideal garden world, so I'm sure it can produce tons of foodstuffs given a little technological nudge, but I don't see that as worth much in that part of the Trojan Reach. The area is heavy with lightly populated garden worlds and water worlds. Not many high population worlds to sell to, and ample room to produce food (and also grow a population - don't get me started on the world generation system leading to billions of people on world with no population, and almost empty garden worlds a parsec away.)
Good points, though I think Asim probably has already had their own Green Revolution so they likely are already quite productive in agriculture, which leads us to wonder more about what percentage of the population is still primarily agrarian versus those perusing other occupations. But I don't think we have enough information to make more than speculative claims about that, in other worlds, GMs have a fair latitude to just make it up (within reason).
Likewise about the planet tables, but to fix it you'd have to take surrounding factors into account, as well as technology, whether contact has been made and viola... you just surpassed MegaTraveller in grognardiness (I totally just made up a word :lol: )
The King actually suggests moving the base of power as he is dying. If it were me I'd likely move the seat of power to Inurin. Lots of room, a good number of people, somewhat reasonable local governments, can't really challenge you technologically, and well located. Take the nobles you can work with to lend you credibility if need be, and the useless Drinax nobles (the majority of them) can stay on the palace with empty titles to placate them. Earn your keep or stay at the palace, the choice is yours. Assuming you go the feudal route, much of the nobility you actually rely on will likely be newly appointed ones with ties to the worlds they oversee.
Another one you could debate about. If I were to make that call I'd likely go for Torpol myself I'll explain why in a moment. But if it were later in the campaign and depending on what worlds had joined I would have a preference for TechWorld if available. Course I'd also try to figure out how to make the Floating Palace jump capable and move the whole thing! Let it never be said I'm not ambitious. LOL

As for Torpol, here's my thinking. First, it has two planetary belts so there's potentially a lot of mineral wealth to support offworld / orbital industry which gives you something to build on. It has gas giants and is also a water world that already makes hydrogen fuel so there's that. Its also a water world which if you're a sneaky bastard (and I am) potentially makes it quite defensible from attack, including orbital bombardment (water is a wonderful bullet stop). Think submarines with surface to orbit torpedoes. Surface, fire, submerge, move, repeat... and good luck to the attacking ships, they'll need it. Not to be discounted, it also has nice beaches and resort towns... and what's not to love about that? So its like Taihiti, with the potential for a great offworld industrial base (hey its even eco-friendly)... I'm already shopping for where I want my baronial estate. 8)
Maybe the first expansion to Drinax's highport (which what is that, the Floating Palace itself? I was never clear just where their Class A starport was located) would be some industrial smelters.
Drinax doesn't have a class A port. That's a function of an out of date map. It's only starport is the floating palace itself. (see Pirates Book 2, page 15).

Is it... I would tend to agree with you except in the Drinax Trojan Reach book it still lists Drinax as having a class A starport. But, I think you make a good point and its one that has puzzled me so a good GM compromise seems in order. How about this. The Floating Palace does seem to have some sort of starport. Its luxurious, very posh, hence the class A travel rating. Its also limited to a few smaller landing pads and can't handle anything over say 2000 dT. They could build ships there, up to about that same limit, if they actually had anyone who had any practical experience building ships... which they don't. They also lack pretty much every single component and material you'd need, so they need supplies. Additinally, in a bid to maintain other systems and keep the whole place running (and floating) they probably stripped most of the construction equipment for use elsewhere so they'll even need new tool and equipment. But... if you could solve those problems they could start repairing ships or even building new ones up to a total of about 2000 dT at any given time. If you want anything more than that... build a proper high port. Sound reasonable?
If you want to have a little fun building a power base in the campaign, take on this little tidbit:
The ruler of Ace is not a hereditary position – instead,
the king is chosen by the sages. The last king was killed
when Marga Dome was destroyed by Tyrian raiders.
The Sages have declared that the next king will be an
offworlder, and that blessed king will deliver Ace from
the threat of raiders.
So there you go, a few hundred million people just waiting on their king. The map has Ace at TL8, but the book has it at TL9, so do with that what you will.
Okay... I can't hold it in anymore. Its Drinax, with a floating palace, hawkmen, a fat king with grav belts... I gotta say it...

FLASH! Aaaaaaahhh.... he saved every one of us! Aaaaaaahhhh... Flash!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

C'mon, you know you been thinking the same thing. :wink:

But yeah, its a good opportunity for another "The Man Who Would Be King" (Sean Connery, Michael Caine, Christopher Plummer, 1975... great movie)
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby paltrysum » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:14 pm

My take on Drinax is that it has the capability to have a class-A starport, but they simply do not have the room on their last precipice of civilization: the Floating City. Were they to somehow expand the city, build orbitals, or somehow reacquire the land on the planet's surface, they could take the knowledge that is kept in the Scholar's Tower and implement it to recreate a TL-14 jump-drive-producing shipyard, and all the other amenities that such a facility has. It is a starport A in ability—they just don't have the space to execute on that potential.

As for moving the capital, very interesting ideas. I wonder if my group will eventually come to a similar conclusion.
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby Old School » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:36 pm

Sean, you and I are looking at the same book with regards to Drinax and its starport. Look on page 15. The class A port was there, but is now ancient history.

Drinax definitely has the the technological know how. I agree they lack the experience and the supplies. As far as building a 2000 ton ship, I’m looking at the map of the floating palace, and it just aint happening.
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby Bardicheart » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:43 am

I'm looking at Pirates of Drinax Book 2 - Trojan Reach page 179, Chapter Nineteen, Tlaiowaha Subsector. It lists Drinax as A43645A-E which is the same as the older map data. I would say this was a contradiction, possibly something that slipped through proof reading but... on page 272 of Book 1 (the campaign book) it list Drinax as A33645C-F which doesn't match on several points, except for the class A starport.

If you're referring to the Aslan attack as having destroyed the starport / shipyard, I would tend to agree (because it makes rational sense!) except for those silly planetary listing. That's why I asked if you guys thought the starport was part of the floating palace and suggested some sort of compromise to reconcile the discrepancy. I would tend to have changed it to, I dunno... class C or D maybe and would probably play it that way if I were running the campaign just because that seems to fit the descriptions better. But for those trying to stick to the OTU as written, some sort of compromise seems in order, no?

I'll re-iterate, I really wish shipyards were handled separately from the starport rating
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby ochd » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:12 pm

Excuse my butting in from the sidelines, but I thought Book 2 spelled it out clearly. See page 21:
The Starport: The Aslan destroyed the original starport of Drinax, but the King’s personal starport qualifies almost as a Class A port. It lacks a shipyard, but can repair any ship that lands there and has absolutely luxurious fittings for both crews and vessels.
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby Old School » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:06 pm

Good find, ochd. That's the fun part, you can usually put together a complete picture (although not always - there are contradictions as well as some echoes from prior versions), but you'll have to pull from three different places in the books to do so. :)
According to the charts of the Imperial Scouts, the planet still has a Class-A Starport, but the charts are centuries out of date.
From page 15.

Keep in mind that the UWPs listed in the charts in your books or on Traveller Map are the latest survey from IISS - meaning the writers of any given campaign or adventure can find an excuse for them to be wrong, or at least out of date.

Another example is both Cordan and Tanith in the Borderlands have population codes of "3", meaning a total population in the single digits. But Cordan only counts its nobles, and Tanith only counts its "citizens", so the actual population of each world is much, much higher. Speaking of, I just picked up the 1st edition world profiles for Umemii, Tanith, and Wildman to help flesh out those systems for adventures. Pretty good stuff. Was excited to see a whole section on mercenaries in the Umemii book, but alas, the same material was recycled for the Mercenaries Referee's Briefing that came out for 2nd Ed. Despite the aggravation of paying for some material twice, they look pretty good.

Had to postpone the Invasion of Acrid ("It's the Liberation of Acrid, not invasion!") last night due to sick kids. Bummer.
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby locarno24 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:31 pm

Random thought - looking through some old material (Megatraveller) - found some reference to the Empire of Sindal with a pretty good run-down of their entire pre-fall navy.

Obviously it's not correct for contemporary canon, as it doesn't namecheck Harrier-class commerce raiders or the heavier Wyvern-class, but it's an interesting inventory of ships which might be floating around in the Thebus debris field or else in various hands, either derelict or still running, and might be useful assets for someone trying to resurrect the Dragon Throne.

It's listed in the Traveller Wiki

Prior to the collapse the fleet consisted of:

Capital Ships:
1 Liaoning Class Carrier, 65,000 tons, 300 m long, with fifty fighters.
Built for the Sindalian Empire, this was the flagship of the fleet. It carried five squadrons of 20 ton fighters. It carried a heavy meson spinal mount but no armor and limited agility. There were back up screens and a model 7 fib computer. The marine platoons had four air rafts and four attack speeders.

A powerful vessel, the ship mounted:
[Presumably the Meson Spinal - it's not mentioned here, though)
20 heavy missile bays,
200 triple sand caster turrets,
4 fusion gun bays,
4 particle accelerator bays,
4 repulsor bays (whatever they are),
50 triple laser turrets.

The ship is described as TL-13, 4G, J-4, 752 crew with 65 marines

Since this ship was in a class of one ship, it's a fair guess that the ship was called the Liaoning. This was the flagship of the Sindal Star Guard; I'm sure some sort of rumour of its survival has to be a thing, and might make for an interesting adventure. The air/rafts are standard 4-tonners, and the attack speeders apparently 6 tonners.

69 Type 095 Shang Class Missile Cruisers, 13,800 tons, 110 m long
Built for the Sindalian Empire, the Shang Class Missile Cruiser was streamlined with scoops and purification for ocean refueling. It carried a 20 ton gig, light armor and no meson spinal mount but had average agility. There was a back up model 7 fib computer. The marine platoons had four air rafts and four attack speeders.

A powerful vessel, the ship mounted:
10 heavy missile bays,
4 triple sand caster turrets,
1 fusion gun bay,
1 particle accelerator bay,
1 repulsor bay and
4 triple laser turrets.

The ship is described as TL-13, 5G, J-4, 190 crew with 65 marines


This will presumably be what the bulk of the civil war was fought with. A capital ship with massed torpedo tubes is flexible, but also not great if you're at the wrong end of a logistics chain -which makes sense for Sindal's star guard since Jump-4 (which seems to have been the standard 'fleet manouvrability' level for the star guard lets you cover a fair chunk of the reach in one go). I imagine it made supply depots and arsenals a huge thing during the fall. Salvaging one of these is probably massively out of scope of a pirate group but if your PCs were to discover a derelict and figure out how to repair and re-man it Lord Wrax and the Drinaxi Star Guard may spontaneously wet themselves with glee. A detachment of 65 marines, 4 x military air rafts and 4 x attack speeders seems to be a standard force element for the Star Guard 'heavies' so you may see barracks or legacy military units organised in that fashion in militias around the reach.

26 Type 052D Yulang III Class Destroyers, 7,000 tons, 156 m long
Built for the Sindalian Empire, the Yulang III class Destroyer was partially streamlined with scoops and purification for gas giant refueling. Fitted for jump 4 and 6 G's acceleration, it carried 2 air rafts and 2 attack speeders for the marines. It had light armor, no screens and no meson spinal mount. It is somewhat under powered and as a result had average agility. There was a model 7 fib computer.

A well armed vessel, the ship mounted:
3 missile bays,
20 triple sand caster turrets,
10 dual fusion gun turrets, and
10 triple laser turrets.

The ship is described as TL-13, 6G, J-4, 105 crew with 42 marines

A slightly bigger medium capital ship. Interestingly this thing packs missile bays rather than torpedo bays; which will struggle to hurt well armoured opponents but can put out a massively superior rate of fire (36 missiles per volley from a Yulang III compared to 30 torpedoes from a much larger - nearly twice the size - Shang). Might have a significant edge when flinging stuff like multi-warhead missiles against fighter swarms, where absolute rate of fire matters more than individual weapon damage, or for bombardment with ortillery missiles when trying to provide slightly more discriminate fire support or demonstrative strikes without an accompanying mega-death atrocity

49 Type 053H Xiamen Class Frigates, 4,000 tons, 134 m long
Built for the Sindalian Empire, the Xiamen Class Frigate was partially streamlined with scoops and purification for gas giant refueling. Equipped for jump 4 and 5 G's acceleration, it carried a 2 air rafts and 2 attack speeders for the marines. It had light armor, no screens and no meson spinal mount. It is somewhat under powered and as a result had average agility. There was a powerful model 7 fib computer.

A well armed vessel, the ship mounted:
2 heavy missile bays,
10 triple sand caster turrets,
5 dual fusion gun turrets, and
5 triple laser turrets.

The ship is described as TL-13, 5G, J-4, 85 crew with 42 marines

A medium capital ship. Lots of missiles for bombing things, and some marines to search the bodies for loose change afterwards.


23 Type 056 Jiangdao Class Corvettes, 1,500 tons, 90 m long
Background: Built for the Sindalian Empire, the Jiangdao Class Corvette was partially streamlined with scoops and purification for gas giant refueling. Equipped for jump 4 and 4 G's acceleration, it carried a 2 air rafts and 2 attack speeders for the marines. It had light armor, no screens and no meson spinal mount. It is somewhat under powered and as a result had average agility. There was a powerful model 7 fib computer.
A well armed vessel, the ship mounted:
1 heavy missile bay,
2 triple sand caster turrets,
2 dual fusion gun turrets, and
1 triple laser turret.

The ship is described as TL-13, 4G, J-4, 72 crew with 42 marines

A light capital ship. Again, the Sindalian focus on big missiles as warship primary weapons. 42 x Marines, 2 x military Air/Rafts and 2 x Attack speeders seems a standard organic marine complement. I guess smaller ship lets you be in more places at once but this is really just a Xiamen that's shrunk in the wash; it's hard to come up with any advantage of the design over it's larger cousin. Note that this is a total of 168 true warships - the Sindallian Star Guard was pretty well armed!


Escorts and Patrol Vessels:
94 Project 122bis Kronshtadt Class Pursuit Ships, 325 tons, 53 m long
Built for the Sindalian Empire, the Project 122bis Kronshtadt Class Pursuit Ship was streamlined with scoops for ocean refueling. Designed by a foreign power and license built, it was intended to chase down civilian ships. It carried eleven crew with jump 3 and 6 G's acceleration, and 6 agility. It had light hull armor but only a model 5 fib computer.

The ship mounted:
two triple missile turrets and
a triple pulse laser turret for defense

The ship is described as TL-13, 6G, J-3, 11 crew with 2 marines

Even faster than the Houbei and armoured, it's again very much a police cutter and something the PCs could very well find themselves being shot at by. The name is obviously non-Asian-themed, which ties up with the 'foreign built' comment - Baltic names tend to be Sword Worlder in origin, don't they?

109 Type 022 Houbei Class Missile Boats, 220 tons, 43 m long
Built for the Sindalian Empire, the Houbei class Missile Boat was streamlined with scoops and purification for ocean refueling. It carried six crew with jump 4 and 5 G's acceleration, but only 2 agility. It had no defense except a powerful model 7 computer.

The ship mounted two triple missile turrets


The ship is described as TL-13, 5G, J-4, 6 crew

The fact that this is 220 dTons not 200 dTons is an artefact of the older rules. Aside from that it's basically Sindal's version of a Serpent-class police cutter, trading a point of armour and a point of thrust for jump capability

17 Type 054A Huangpu Class Gunboats, 50 tons, 25 m long
Built for the Sindalian Empire, the Huangpu Class Gunboat was streamlined cone structured hull with scoops for ocean refueling. It carried a single pilot with 6 G's acceleration, and 6 agility. It had thick armor to survive ground attacks and hits during space battles. The bridge was fitted with a model 2 computer. A few of these ships were used to defend key systems and were stationed near star ports and military bases. This craft was also called in to provide close fire support for marines

The ship mounted a powerful fusion gun mount.

The ship is described a single-man, TL-13, 6G small craft

Little more than a heavy fighter. A 50dton 'rough field' (ocean-fuelled) ship with a heavy energy mount provides (if you have a few squadrons of them squirreled away) the same sort of 'hard to pin down' threat as SDBs. This sort of thing surely is still lying around somewhere; 50 dTon TL13 ships must be well within the means of some current worlds in the Trojan reach to build. Odd that they build so few of such a small ship - although I guess since Sindal enforced the law with orbital gunfire a lot they didn't want the proles getting an effective SDB fleet

Assault Vessels:
3 Type 071 Yuzhao Class Assault Cruisers, 20,000 tons, 210 m long
Built for the Sindalian Empire, the Yuzhao Class Assault Cruiser was partially streamlined with scoops and purification for gas giant refueling. Equipped for jump 4 and 4 G's acceleration, it carried twenty 50 ton drop boats for the 1,100 marines. It had light armor and no meson spinal mount. It carried screens but was somewhat under powered and as a result had average agility. There was a powerful model 7 fib computer.

A well armed vessel, the ship mounted:
14 heavy missile bays,
1 repulsor bay,
1 particle accelerator bay,
10 triple sand caster turrets,
10 dual fusion gun turrets, and
10 triple laser turret.

The ship is described as TL-13, 4G, J-4, 1284 crew with 1100 marines

This is almost a baby carrier. With 4G, Jump-4 and the ability to refuel 'in the wild', a Yuzhao is an incredible mobile base - trade the drop boats (if it still has them) for a mix of fighters and boarding craft for impressive long-reach punch without risking the mothership itself, and a ship which could deploy a full regiment combat-ready must be able to hold a lot of booty.... 14 torpedo bays is a terrifying amount of firepower if anyone actually manages to get into combat range of you - and it matches the Sindalian doctrine of orbital bombardment - imagine them loaded with bombardment rounds; that's 42 ortillery torpedoes per volley!

58 Type 073 Yudao Class Landing Ships, 850 tons, 69 m long
Built for the Sindalian Empire, the Yudao Class Landing Ship was streamlined with scoops and purification for ocean refueling. It carried 77 crew with jump 4 and 4 G's acceleration, and 2 agility. It had no armor but had a powerful model 7 fib computer, loaded with ECM and sophisticated sensors. Four air rafts and four attack speeders were fitted for the marine platoons

The ship mounted:
four triple missile turrets,
two triple sand caster turrets and
two triple beam laser turrets.

The ship is described as TL-13, 4G, J-4, 77 crew with 65 marines

Old assault transports are easily repurposed into tough, well armoured freighters - or raiding ships with plenty of space for cargo. Crewing an assault cruiser is probably beyond the means of most pirate groups, but a refurbished Yudao isn't beyond the realms of imagination

Support Vessels:
11 Type 058A Fedko Class Tankers, 35,900 tons, 178 m long
Built for the Sindalian Empire, the Fedko Class Fleet Tanker was streamlined cone structured hull with scoops and purification for ocean refueling. It carried 300 crew with jump 4 and 2 G's acceleration, and no agility. It had no armor but had a model 7 fib computer. This military auxiliary was some times called in to provide fire support

The ship mounted:
A powerful meson spinal mount (quite unusual for a tanker),
ten batteries of triple missile turrets,
ten batteries triple sand caster turrets,
nine dual fusion gun turrets and
seven batteries of triple beam laser turrets.

The ship is described as TL-13, 2G, J-4, 300 crew

A Fedko is a beast of a ship - it's mostly going to have to take its punishment if it's unarmoured, but even an unarmoured 35 kDton ship has (in 1e terms) 4 sections with 180 hull and structure each - sheer bulk means you can whale on it for quite some time without doing serious damage, and a spinal mount plus a fair number of offensive energy mounts means one of these things can do a fair impression of a 'proper' capital ship. A proper naval ship like the Eurisko would still kick it silly, but not much short of that

28 Type 043 Yuan Class Mine Countermeasure Ships, 500 tons, 58 m long
Built for the Sindalian Empire, the Yuan Class Mine Countermeasure Ship was streamlined with scoops and purification for ocean refueling. It carried sixteen crew with jump 4 and 1 G's acceleration, and only 1 agility. It had thick armor to survive mine attacks and a powerful model 6 computer, loaded with ECM and sophisticated sensors. Fire control allowed the lasers to engage nine small targets at the same time. Four small zero-G warbots were fitted to scout ahead of the ship during methodical mine clearing operations.

The ship mounted two triple missile turrets and
three triple beam laser turrets.

'mines' aren't really a thing in the current rules (although a long-endurance drone with weapons does the job, I guess), and the zero-g warbots would be probe drones in the current ruleset.

The ship is described as TL-13, 1G, J-4, 16 crew

232 Type 092 Qiongsha Class Fleet Auxiliary Supply Ships, 300 tons, 29 m long
Built for the Sindalian Empire, the Qiongsha Class Fleet Auxiliary Supply Ship was streamlined cone structured hull with scoops and purification for ocean refueling. It carried eight crew with jump 2 and 2 G's acceleration, and 1 agility. It had no armor but had a model 2 bis computer. This was a commercial ship re-purposed for military support duty, many were left in civilian hands after the empire fell

The ship mounted:
A triple missile turret,
a triple sand caster turret and
a triple beam laser turret.

The ship is described as TL-13, 2G, J-2, 8 crew

2G/J-2 and 300 dTons is not far off most trader hulls (albeit three triple turrets is a lot more teeth than most people expect to see!). If nothing else, throwing in the odd Qiongsha as a contact might be interesting.
Last edited by locarno24 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby paltrysum » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:35 pm

Old School wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:06 pm
Had to postpone the Invasion of Acrid ("It's the Liberation of Acrid, not invasion!") last night due to sick kids. Bummer.
While on the subject of Acrid, there's another system upon which Mongoose has fudged the population upwards. The 1,000 listed on travellermap (or an oudated IISS survey if you will) indicates only the world's "fully registered citizens [who] are exempt from most of the surcharges and get preferential rates for necessary items." The transient labor forces numbers another 25,000 or so who are effectively debt slaves to the PRQ.
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby ochd » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:08 pm

Tech World is another - supposed to only have 30 people. :)
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby Old School » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:28 pm

ochd wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:08 pm
Tech World is another - supposed to only have 30 people. :)
Hey, one busy day at the starport could move that population code, so cut the Scouts a little slack, would you?

Apparently underreporting population is a thing in the Borderlands.
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby Pyromancer » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:37 pm

ochd wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:08 pm
Tech World is another - supposed to only have 30 people. :)
That number is from before GeDeCo settled those outlawed scientists from Neumann there.
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby Bardicheart » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:47 am

ochd wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:12 pm
Excuse my butting in from the sidelines, but I thought Book 2 spelled it out clearly. See page 21:
The Starport: The Aslan destroyed the original starport of Drinax, but the King’s personal starport qualifies almost as a Class A port. It lacks a shipyard, but can repair any ship that lands there and has absolutely luxurious fittings for both crews and vessels.
An I'll thank you kindly for "butting in" with that rather useful bit of information. :wink:

That's the nice thing about having a good discussion, other people notice things I miss.

Speaking of which, tip of the hat to Locarno for that wiki find. That's a nice roster of ships!
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby Old School » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:37 am

Agreed, that’s a good find, locarno.

Our players have their work cut out for them to rebuild!
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby paltrysum » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:22 am

Great find, locarno! I'm not sure whether that counts as canon or not, but it was in the Traveller's Digest which was sanctioned by DGP was it not? I remember Hans Rancke-Madsen from the '90s online Traveller groups.

The one place this might come in very handy is if you include the planet Goertel in your campaign. Goertel has a religious dictatorship that serves the Church of Nom. When the Glorious Empire started losing worlds to the Aslan Hierate, the mothballed fleets of Goertel at Delta Theta were once again pressed into duty and helped liberate Goertel from the Empire's grasp. The fleet is said to include "several antique Sindalian warships." Could be fun to include some of Hans' ships in the mix.
"Spacers lead a sedentary life. They live at home, and their home is always with them—their starship, and so is their country—the depths of space."
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby Old School » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:28 am

several antique Sindalian warships
Whoa whoa whoa. WHOA. I know somebody who’s going to want those back.

The invasion/liberation of Acrid postponed again. And I’m on a family vacation next week. The natives are getting restless.
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby Geir » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:13 am

paltrysum wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:22 am
Great find, locarno! I'm not sure whether that counts as canon or not, but it was in the Traveller's Digest which was sanctioned by DGP was it not? I remember Hans Rancke-Madsen from the '90s online Traveller groups.
Hans Rancke-Madsen is better known for his stuff on the Sword Worlds, which I think is pretty much accepted canon.

Checking my archives (a.k.a. box in basement that I forgot about for nearly 20 years) Traveller's Digest No. 20 does include th Reft and Trojan Reach secotrs, including UWP in 1117 (the Aslan took everything short of Gazulin if we're going with that timeline). The only mention of the Sindalian Empire is a short paragraph in the end of the sector summary dealing with old "Vilani settlements" and the empire collapsing in a period ending in -1400-something. So the ships probably don't count as "canon", but why rock the boat. Somebody already did the work, so might as well run with it.
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby locarno24 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:26 pm

Thanks, guys. Came across it by accident and thought it might be a nice thing to have. The designs don't translate exactly (what the heck is a repulsor bay, anyway?) but even if all you use is the class names and tonnage, it's a nice to have.
As noted, it doesn't mention the Wyvern or Harrier, and the universally Oriental class names don't really line up with other naming elements we know of.
Old School wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:37 am
Our players have their work cut out for them to rebuild!
Agreed. To put it into perspective, to 'hold' the Reach to a pretty decent standard, the Sindallian Star Guard had just shy of one hundred and seventy major combatants, all at least slightly higher TL and slightly larger than Hroal Irontooth's 'pocket warship'. That's obviously aspirational but a pretty tall order - even if the Dukedom of Drinax only had a pro-rata-ed proportion of it, that's still a sizeable fleet to aim for.
paltrysum wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:22 am
The one place this might come in very handy is if you include the planet Goertel in your campaign. Goertel has a religious dictatorship that serves the Church of Nom. When the Glorious Empire started losing worlds to the Aslan Hierate, the mothballed fleets of Goertel at Delta Theta were once again pressed into duty and helped liberate Goertel from the Empire's grasp. The fleet is said to include "several antique Sindalian warships." Could be fun to include some of Hans' ships in the mix.
As noted, if I remember Treasure of Sindal right, it describes a major derelict field at Thebus from the final days of the fall, too. Any salvageable complete derelict will probably have been snagged in the many intervening years, but enough bits to chop-shop together into a working hull are possible. Equally, any just-post-fall era settlement might, for example, include a crashed Yudao as a building

Geir wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:13 am

Hans Rancke-Madsen is better known for his stuff on the Sword Worlds, which I think is pretty much accepted canon.
The Kronshtadt probably is a Sword Worlder export design, then.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:35 pm

Repulsor bays could be tractor beams, perhaps? (High guard, p.69)

And yes, I agree that the ships were a very interesting find :)
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby Old School » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:14 pm

Yes. A repulsor is a tractor beam set on reverse. Dont remember what the point was. Repulsing missiles, pushing fighters away, preventing a hostile boarding? Never used them.

Did we ever figure out what a Wyvern is/was, or is it undefined and therefore all speculation? I remember seeing theories ranging from 400 tons to 2000 tons and up.
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Re: Pirates of Drinax - GMs thread

Postby locarno24 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:39 pm

Old School wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:14 pm
Yes. A repulsor is a tractor beam set on reverse. Dont remember what the point was. Repulsing missiles, pushing fighters away, preventing a hostile boarding? Never used them.

Did we ever figure out what a Wyvern is/was, or is it undefined and therefore all speculation? I remember seeing theories ranging from 400 tons to 2000 tons and up.
The only semi-official statement was a response from Gareth Hanrahan (Mytholder) when asked about the ship:
It's probably a good bit bigger than a Harrier, while still being an Adventurer-type hull (<2000 tons) - the Sindalian Empire was formed as a coalition to beat up raiders, and you don't need giant capital ships for that).
A 1000 dTon ship or thereabouts would provide a meaningful step-change from a Harrier - the ability to pack bay mounts, for example. But we don't really know very much. It makes it about the size of the Jiangdao to compare to that list of ships, but since it's a Drinaxi ship, not a Sindallian one, it's probably TL-15, and with a heavier emphasis on energy mounts (don't need missile tubes so much if you don't do orbital bombardment), a lower jump limit (because Drinax isn't so big) and maybe a higher sublight thrust rating. Plus a lot more gold and statuary.

Also, looking up those names of classes from the traveller wiki, not only are they 'oriental themed', but they are literally the names and classes of PLA Navy warships.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_056_corvette
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_22_missile_boat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_053_frigate (2nd ship of class Xiamen)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_052D_destroyer (okay, it's Luyang III not Yulang III but it ain't exactly subtle, is it?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang-class_submarine (This is the Type 093, but a Type 095 is planned)

So basically the writer was trying to turn Sindal into the Peoples Republic Of China In Spaaaaaaaace.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.

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