Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

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Cpt.Future
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Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby Cpt.Future » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:52 am

Hello,

In the Core Rulebook for NewTraveller, there on pages 77 and 78 you describe the suffocation- and the vacuum-rules.

Is my understanding correct that these rules are applied in addition to each other? Example: A Traveller drops into outa space for whatever reason. In round 1 he suffocates receiving 1d damage, also vacuum has its impact on him adding another 1d damage. In round 2: 1d suffocation plus 2d vacuum damage. Round 3 ...

And how do you react if a gamer is aware that his character is going to drop into space, so the character holds his breath - would you apply the suffocation rule as well? Or would you wait for a random number of rounds (like 2d to 4d rounds or depending in END checks), because the charater does not suffocate for as long as he holds his breath?

Best wishes,
Cpt. Future
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PsiTraveller
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Re: Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby PsiTraveller » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:25 am

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -possible/


Don't hold your breath and hope they have an autodoc ready for you.
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Re: Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby Condottiere » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:09 pm

Expel all your breath and have the power of telekinesis.

May the Force be with you.

Image
Cpt.Future
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Re: Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby Cpt.Future » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:22 pm

Hello.

Thank you for your replies so far. Please help me understand, how this answers especially the first of my two questions. Thanks in advance.

Best wishes,
Cpt. Future
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PsiTraveller
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Re: Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby PsiTraveller » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:19 pm

The suffocation din an area without life support and is minute based. This is different from a vacuum, it is just low oxygen content but pressure is there.

In a vacuum situation there is no pressure which causes the biggest issue, so I would not bothere with the suffocation damage after 1 minute, since by that time you are taking 10 dice every 6 seconds anyway.
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Re: Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby Cpt.Future » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:48 pm

Hello.
PsiTraveller wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:19 pm
The suffocation din an area without life support and is minute based. This is different from a vacuum, it is just low oxygen content but pressure is there.

In a vacuum situation there is no pressure which causes the biggest issue, so I would not bothere with the suffocation damage after 1 minute, since by that time you are taking 10 dice every 6 seconds anyway.
Thank you. I thought about that myself. But my question roots in this part of the rule:
A Traveller who is utterly without air (such as ..., or who has been thrown out of an airlock) suffers 1D damage each round instead. [CRB pg 78]
This concludes the Suffocation rules set.

So, RAW I would consider this particular rule as an addition to the vacuum rules on the same page. Are these two rule-sets intended to be combined?

And yes, even without the suffocation rules the vacuum rules are kinda deadly on their own.

Best wishes!
Cpt. Future
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Reynard
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Re: Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby Reynard » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:32 pm

You could have oxygen depletion in normal atmospheric condition from a system failure, not replacing oxygen directly or releasing CO2 or CO back into the system or a gas leak in a home and suffocate. A dense medium such as water prevents unadapted people from using oxygen and suffocate. Those cases can otherwise be survivable environments. A vacuum introduces other severe physical stresses the body isn't meant to endure. You are suffocating AND taking physical damage from being in a vacuum. Space is nasty.
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Re: Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby PsiTraveller » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:28 am

You could add in the extra D6 damage in the 10th round, but by that time the player has taken 55 D already. Will the extra D6 really make that much of an impact?

They have also taken 10 D6 in radiation damage on average, and have a -3 END penalty from the cumulative exposure. (asuming the vacuum is in space)
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Re: Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby Cpt.Future » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:01 am

Hello.
PsiTraveller wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:28 am
You could add in the extra D6 damage in the 10th round, but by that time the player has taken 55 D already. Will the extra D6 really make that much of an impact?

They have also taken 10 D6 in radiation damage on average, and have a -3 END penalty from the cumulative exposure. (asuming the vacuum is in space)
I don‘t see the minute gap. But I guess that‘s me. I haven‘t considered the radiation issue. Yes, maybe (maybe even certainly) you could add this one as well.

Summing up: if you combine all applicable rules vaccum in space may be insta-death and will eventually kill very quickly.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. This really helps me a lot. I also think this is more kind of a theoretical discussion, because situations like this will hold a complete story which will have its impact on the gamer‘s character already rendering the vacuum/ suffocation/ radiation rules kind of meaningless. Time will tell.

Cheers!
Cpt. Future
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Re: Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby NOLATrav » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:32 am

There is an episode of the Expanse where civilians are jettisoned into vacuum without protection. It takes about 20 seconds of screen time for the them to die. They were obviously not expecting it nor were they trained in vacuum EVA. I got choked up watching it.

I think it is a good realistic baseline for vacuum exposure - you're dead in 3-4 rounds. Using RAW, 4 rounds of exposure = 1+2+3+4D = 10D damage (average 35, or 11 per stat). Characters with Vacc Suit skill could probably reduce it 1D+1D per level of skill due to safety training (Vacc 0 = 1D, etc). So someone with Vacc Suit 2 would suffer 0+0+3+4 = 7D damage (average 24 or 8 per stat). Vacuum training then becomes a significant advantage in a situation like this.

Suffocation is likely an END-based malady - maybe you can hold your breath for END+1 rounds, plus your END mod in rounds? So a character with END 9 (+1) could hold their breath for (10+1) x 6 = 66 seconds? After that, 1D END damage per round, then on to the other stats.

I see no reason to combine these rules for additional damage, they are both quite deadly enough.
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Re: Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby PsiTraveller » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:52 am

pg 78 under suffocation:
Without life support, a Traveller begins to suffocate,
suffering 1D damage each minute. A Traveller who is
utterly without air (such as one who being smothered
or strangled, or who has been thrown out of an airlock)
suffers 1D damage each round instead.

So 1D a minute suffocation. 1D +1d per round for vacuum damage.
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Re: Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby Reynard » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:58 pm

I actually know about long term suffocation from an incident at work. My job had me regularly wearing a full hazmat suit with a power filter on my back. One day I noticed I was yawning increasingly. Took me a bit of time but I realized over the ambient noise of the work area I didn't hear the sounds of my filter pack! I was in a fairly sealed suit breathing the same stagnant air now building up CO2. The yawning is your body's reaction trying to get oxygen. I was lucky I recognized what was happening or I would have passed out. That's how suffocation can take many minutes before one succumbs.
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Re: Rules: about suffocation and vacuum

Postby Condottiere » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:03 pm

I suspect that's the equivalent of being slowly cooked, instead of dropped into boiling oil.

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