Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

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AnotherDilbert
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:23 pm

baithammer wrote: High Guard has specs on the tanks under classification of the Unicorn, which appears to be a Gazelle.
CE-13768 Unicorn CE-3455762-300000-401000-0 MCr355.99 300 tons
...
Note: L-Hyd Tanks add 100 tons of fuel and mass (CE-4444762) and cost MCr.1 I.
This isn't the original Gazelle.

This is:
The two longitudinal fuel tanks of the Gazelle class ship are engineered to be droppable in extreme circumstances.
...
The decrease in tonnage for the ship results in greater efficiency, and the ship can jump farther (J-6). Additional fuel tankage within the ship allows maneuver, but the tanks must be replaced before the ship can again jump.
Implying a 160 Dt drop tank.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:27 pm

Yes, the Gazelle design has quirks. Given that it was published by MWM I find it difficult to call it wrong...

It is still an interesting design, an attempt at a small ship that might actually survive combat, unlike the civilian designs in LBB2, e.g. the Type T.

Sigtrygg wrote: HG79 doesn't have particle barbettes...
Yes, the original Gazelle is a HG'79 ship with weapons from HG'80. Perhaps MWM used an intermediary version of HG?

Condottiere wrote: Didn't the Gazelle have other issues, like drop tanks and associated hardpoints?
To make the cost reasonable it has to be 400 Dt + drop tanks (~267 Dt), but the it would have lots of empty space. If it was 400 Dt including tanks it would be much cheaper.

And it has armour despite Close Configuration can't have armour in HG'79. I have no idea how armour is supposed to work in HG'79.

It has a m/3 computer and J-4 software, but is said to be capable of J-6 (dropping tanks).

In short I don't understand the design and can't recreate it...
phavoc
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby phavoc » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:02 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:23 pm
The two longitudinal fuel tanks of the Gazelle class ship are engineered to be droppable in extreme circumstances.
...
The decrease in tonnage for the ship results in greater efficiency, and the ship can jump farther (J-6). Additional fuel tankage within the ship allows maneuver, but the tanks must be replaced before the ship can again jump.
Implying a 160 Dt drop tank.
[/quote]
Doesn't the above imply it had TWO 80 Dton drop tanks instead of a single one?
phavoc
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby phavoc » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:06 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:27 pm
Yes, the Gazelle design has quirks. Given that it was published by MWM I find it difficult to call it wrong...

It is still an interesting design, an attempt at a small ship that might actually survive combat, unlike the civilian designs in LBB2, e.g. the Type T.

Sigtrygg wrote: HG79 doesn't have particle barbettes...
Yes, the original Gazelle is a HG'79 ship with weapons from HG'80. Perhaps MWM used an intermediary version of HG?

Condottiere wrote: Didn't the Gazelle have other issues, like drop tanks and associated hardpoints?
To make the cost reasonable it has to be 400 Dt + drop tanks (~267 Dt), but the it would have lots of empty space. If it was 400 Dt including tanks it would be much cheaper.

And it has armour despite Close Configuration can't have armour in HG'79. I have no idea how armour is supposed to work in HG'79.

It has a m/3 computer and J-4 software, but is said to be capable of J-6 (dropping tanks).

In short I don't understand the design and can't recreate it...
The early ships weren't really built, I think, following a unified design structure. They sounded cool and different designers took liberties. MWM's early Traveller work had many conflicting concepts which still exist through the different versions today.

It was also a much smaller-ship universe at the time. 5,000 Dtons was the limit. In a 5,000 ton capital ship universe, a 400 ton escort/gunboat isn't unreasonable.
Sigtrygg
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby Sigtrygg » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:23 pm

The drop tank rules in HG79 read to me that you designate the fuel tankage as in drop tanks near the end of the design sequence.

Thus you design as a 400t ship, have the hardpoints of a 400t ship, but then designate most of the fuel as carried in drop tanks near the end.

As to the computer, the requirement that computer model = jump drive number was not in 77CT - all you had to do was install a computer that could run the jump programme.

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