Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

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baithammer
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Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby baithammer » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:45 am

This is an attempt to bring the Gazelle and Fiery Variant ( Plus the drop tank variant.) to be more inline with MGT 2ed construction system.

Standard Gazelle

Image

Fiery Class Variant

Image

Impala Class Variant ( Drop Tank version)

Image
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:56 pm

The Gazelle is no Patrol Corvette/Cruiser. The original JTAS4 Gazelle is a well armoured and well armed (PA barbettes) TL15 ship.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:22 pm

baithammer wrote: Standard Gazelle
I don't think you can fit the entire crew into six staterooms.
Why the limited sensors?
Double turrets on a military ship?
Rad shielding, Holographic?

The original Gazelle carried the gig externally, a clamp would be more fitting than a full hangar.

It's not really a Gazelle without drop tanks...
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby Condottiere » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:55 am

As I recall, anti piracy and close escort for fleet trains and convoys.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby baithammer » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:44 am

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:22 pm
baithammer wrote: Standard Gazelle
I don't think you can fit the entire crew into six staterooms.
Why the limited sensors?
Double turrets on a military ship?
Rad shielding, Holographic?

The original Gazelle carried the gig externally, a clamp would be more fitting than a full hangar.

It's not really a Gazelle without drop tanks...
Not all versions of the gazelle had drop tanks, MGT 1ed version was streamlined hull with armour 8 and Jump 4. ( Also had 4 double turrets.)
Double turrets on a military ship?
Its a small scale escort intended to operate against pirates and the like and the reduction in energy per turret allows for more cargo / endurance.
Why the limited sensors?
MGT 1ed only had military grade for starters and outside of jammers the more advanced sensors don't really offer much for a convoy escort.
Rad shielding, Holographic?
Not likely to run into particle weapons and also not likely to run into very maneuverable ships. ( Keeps costs down.)
The original Gazelle carried the gig externally, a clamp would be more fitting than a full hangar.
The hangar allows direct access to small craft for repairs and moving of cargo. ( Besides the cargo for each version is pretty good given the size.)
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:12 pm

The original Gazelle is a Close Escort, escorting warships, not a patrol ship. It's a proper warship with heavy armour and particle barbette armament. It is not designed for the same role as the para-military patrol corvette.
JTAS4 wrote:Naval tactics in the Imperial Navy call for large ships to be accompanied by well-armed, small fighting craft capable of engaging the enemy at long range, before they approach the principle ships in a task force or convoy. These small ships may be fighter craft carried by the larger ships, or they may be independent close escort vessels.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby Condottiere » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:16 pm

If that were the case for the Gazelle, it suffered mission creep.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby baithammer » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:33 am

The original gazelle was 300t and designed for small ship universe and by CT-S09-Fighting_Ships its described as the following.
The close escort, even when new, was not
intended to stand up to combat vessels; rather it was envisioned as an anti-piracy
and revenue patrol ship.
Also had rules for weapons depending on if using book 2 or book 5.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:17 am

baithammer wrote: The original gazelle was 300t and designed for small ship universe and by CT-S09-Fighting_Ships its described as the following.
That wasn't the original Gazelle.

The original Gazelle in JTAS4 was built with HG'79.
The version in S9 was detuned and rebuilt with HG'80.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby Condottiere » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:44 am

The Corsair is four hundred tonnes.

A Gazelle turning up would be an unpleasant surprise, since I believe it can outfight, outrun and outrange it.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby baithammer » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:01 am

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:17 am
baithammer wrote: The original gazelle was 300t and designed for small ship universe and by CT-S09-Fighting_Ships its described as the following.
That wasn't the original Gazelle.

The original Gazelle in JTAS4 was built with HG'79.
The version in S9 was detuned and rebuilt with HG'80.
JTAS 4 ( Which had different arms depending on if you had book 2 or book 5) is where I got the information about 300t and designed in the small ship universe, it latter got retconned by CT-S09-Fighting_Ships and every edition after that has added more variations.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:20 am

baithammer wrote: JTAS 4 ( Which had different arms depending on if you had book 2 or book 5) is where I got the information about 300t and designed in the small ship universe, ...
The JTAS article does not mention how large the drop tanks are. Apparently the Gazelle is 400 Dt including the tanks, that are probably 160 Dt leaving 240 Dt in the core ship. Note that it can do J4 with tanks, J6 if it drops the tanks, and no jump at all without tanks.

The JTAS article has no alternate armament or information about other ships, only a rule for using the particle barbettes with LBB2.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby Sigtrygg » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:27 pm

The JTAS version is a curious beast.
It uses some stuff that makes you thing HG79, while the PA barbettes are from HG80. It mentions treating the PA as a heavy laser, and yet there are no rules for heavy lasers in LBB:2

I get the feeling it was cobbled together from some house rules that never made it to print.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby baithammer » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:15 am

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:20 am
baithammer wrote: JTAS 4 ( Which had different arms depending on if you had book 2 or book 5) is where I got the information about 300t and designed in the small ship universe, ...
The JTAS article does not mention how large the drop tanks are. Apparently the Gazelle is 400 Dt including the tanks, that are probably 160 Dt leaving 240 Dt in the core ship. Note that it can do J4 with tanks, J6 if it drops the tanks, and no jump at all without tanks.

The JTAS article has no alternate armament or information about other ships, only a rule for using the particle barbettes with LBB2.
This
THE BARBETTES
The barbettes, and their particle
accelerator weapons are not specifically
covered in Traveller Book 2. They are
a variant drawn from the material in
High Guard. and grafted onto Book 2.
Specifically. the barbettes are 5 tons
each. The particle accelerators should be
treated as heavy lasers as in Traveller
Book 2, subject to an advantageous OM
of +2 to hit. Damage from such hits
should be skewed toward crew casual·
ties, and electronic and computer
damage if there is no fibre optic back-up
present.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:09 am

baithammer wrote:
THE BARBETTES ...
That is the rule for using the particle barbettes in LBB2 combat.

What is your point?
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby baithammer » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:52 am

Gives some weight for variable loadout for the original and changed constantly with further editions.

High Guard has specs on the tanks under classification of the Unicorn, which appears to be a Gazelle.
CE-13768 Unicorn CE-3455762-300000-401000-0 MCr355.99 300 tons
batteries bearing 2 2 Crew=I 2
batteries 2 2 TL=14
Passengers=O. Low Berths=O. Cargo=6. Fuel=81. EP=21. Agility=O. Troops=O.
Note: L-Hyd Tanks add 100 tons of fuel and mass (CE-4444762) and cost MCr.1 I.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:20 pm

That wasn't the original Gazelle.

The original Gazelle in JTAS4 was built with HG'79.
The version in HG'80 & S9 was detuned and rebuilt with HG'80.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby Sigtrygg » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:14 pm

HG79 doesn't have particle barbettes...
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby Condottiere » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:48 am

Didn't the Gazelle have other issues, like drop tanks and associated hardpoints?

I think it was a learning process.
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Re: Combined edition variants Gazelle to MGT 2ed

Postby baithammer » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:06 am

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:20 pm
That wasn't the original Gazelle.

The original Gazelle in JTAS4 was built with HG'79.
The version in HG'80 & S9 was detuned and rebuilt with HG'80.
I have JTAS 4 and that is where the paragraph I quoted came from which had the alternate rules for handling the barbette without having book 5.

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