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Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:09 am
by baithammer
The jump net allows the bubble to expand around both the ship and net, it doesn't change the need for the jump bubble.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:56 am
by Condottiere
That would depend a great deal on the physics of jump space and how the jump drive interacts with it.

The jump net is a legacy from the lanthanum grid, when everything that wanted to go safely down the rabbit hole needed somehow to be within the field created by the grid.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:52 pm
by baithammer
MGT 2ed HG states how the mechanics work for the jump net and its used to extend the bubble around the net.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:13 pm
by PsiTraveller
This raises an interesting point about Jump engines, Jump bubbles, Jump Nets, and Docking Clamps.

Suppose we have a ship that is 200 tons of ship and has Jump engines enough to take 400 tons Jump 2. (25 Tons)
The ship could have 200 tons of external cargo mounts and have 200 tons strapped onto those mounts. The Jump would not need a Jump net around the external cargo.

Suppose the 200 ton ship had a 10 Ton Docking clamp and grabbed a 200 ton ship in the clamp. The ship could Jump 2 without the need of a Jump Net and the extra tonnage is calculated for the Jump

If the cargo was not on the mounts or in the clamp a Jump net is needed? So is it a physical connection to the ship that allows the Jump bubble to be big enough to not damage the extra volume on the exterior of the hull. Could the docking clamp be modified to grasp a cargo module of 200 tons and that work instead of a Jump Net?

And another odd question. Suppose the ship with the clamp had damaged Jump engines. Being held in the clamp was a 200 ton ship with the same Jump capacity. Could the ship in the Docking Clamp be the Jumper ship, and not the Jumpee? Carrier not cargo as it were?

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:19 pm
by Condottiere
The jump mechanics have changed since Classic, though in what edition I don't know.

It's certainly different in Mongoose.

In Classic, the jump drive was active during the jump.

In Mongoose, it's a slingshot, the jump drive is only activated for the period needed to open the rabbit hole into jumpspace, and then the starship coasts for a week.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:09 am
by phavoc
I think what this points out is that the rules governing jump travel in the MGT Traveller universe are not necessarily designed to accommodate all the potential add-ons that have been, or will be, proposed in the future.

The model needs to be pretty flexible to contain all of these variations.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:42 am
by baithammer
One of the problems I'm seeing is with the rule changes is the lack of stating how it works in the main section for the mechanic and burying it in further text. Also would be handy to have examples in each section with mechanics so there is less confusion.

Perhaps also having the main books use a 3rd Imperium light model for presenting the system, with a separate section for alternative mechanics / technologies / rules. ( Using 3rd Imperium campaign books to fill in the details.)

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:59 am
by paltrysum
Condottiere wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:19 pm
In Mongoose, it's a slingshot, the jump drive is only activated for the period needed to open the rabbit hole into jumpspace, and then the starship coasts for a week.
CT had drop tanks. Doesn’t that imply that the drives were also inoperative after jump was engaged? If the fuel is expended before discarding the tanks, what would fuel an operating jump drive during jump?

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:02 am
by paltrysum
PsiTraveller wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:13 pm
Suppose the ship with the clamp had damaged Jump engines. Being held in the clamp was a 200 ton ship with the same Jump capacity. Could the ship in the Docking Clamp be the Jumper ship, and not the Jumpee? Carrier not cargo as it were?
Do you think it’s implied that the clamps contain the tech to provide assisted jump? If so, then no. If not, then sure!

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:31 am
by Condottiere
The jump bubble changed the dynamics of jumping.

You need to contiuously charge the lanthanum grid; by implication, you need to charge the jump net as part of the extension of the grid.

In Mongoose Second, the jump drive is switched off during the hop down the rabbit hole, and the bubble decays, until the weasel pops out the other end.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:05 pm
by phavoc
paltrysum wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:59 am
Condottiere wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:19 pm
In Mongoose, it's a slingshot, the jump drive is only activated for the period needed to open the rabbit hole into jumpspace, and then the starship coasts for a week.
CT had drop tanks. Doesn’t that imply that the drives were also inoperative after jump was engaged? If the fuel is expended before discarding the tanks, what would fuel an operating jump drive during jump?
CT used lanthanum grids within the hull to generate the jump 'bubble'. Fuel was used to power capacitors that discharged all at once to power the grid. MGT changed that when they had the hydrogen being changed into exotic particles to create a bubble around the ship.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:14 pm
by Sigtrygg
CT used lanthanum in the drive coils. The metal used in the hull grid was never specified. A lanthanum hull grid was DGPism in MT.
Starship hulls contain as an integral part of their structure a network of wiring which maintains the jump field around the ship. Without this field, the natural physics of jump space would intrude into the ship interior.
The jump coils that channel a ship's energy within the jump drive are constructed of lanthanum, a rare earth which has exactly the correct properties for the purpose. Lanthanum coils are used to control the drive energies during jump. Other materials have been used or substituted, but none function with enough reliability or efficiency to make them practical.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:34 pm
by phavoc
Sigtrygg wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:14 pm
CT used lanthanum in the drive coils. The metal used in the hull grid was never specified. A lanthanum hull grid was DGPism in MT.
Starship hulls contain as an integral part of their structure a network of wiring which maintains the jump field around the ship. Without this field, the natural physics of jump space would intrude into the ship interior.
The jump coils that channel a ship's energy within the jump drive are constructed of lanthanum, a rare earth which has exactly the correct properties for the purpose. Lanthanum coils are used to control the drive energies during jump. Other materials have been used or substituted, but none function with enough reliability or efficiency to make them practical.
Thanks for the clarification.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:51 am
by Condottiere
Whatever the material is, the jump net has something compatible.

Tee Five gives three basic options for creating the field; we have one plus the jump net, because if it works on cargo, it certainly works on the starship hull.

Anything inside the jump bubble, specifically matter, matters when calculating the stability of the jump bubble, which is why I house rule the one percent variance, either way, doesn't factor in for a misjump.

It's quite possible spaceship hulls shrink when cold, and expand when their molecules are heated; plus space junk.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:28 am
by baithammer
MGT 2ed Traveller gives only the bubble drive as a standard jump technology and makes no mention of that material. ( T5 is a more detailed parallel system.)

And its stated the bubble will either push materials away or destroy them.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:01 pm
by Condottiere
So if it starts within the bowels of it's starship, should burst the hull.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:23 pm
by baithammer
More likely the hydrogen is vented with a field to push it away from the ship as a burst of energy is pump into it when sufficient hydrogen is present.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:24 am
by PsiTraveller
The hydrogen bubble was mentioned in earlier products, but now you get the question of psionic power (1st edition Mongoose Advanced Talent). I guess the Psionic energy could fill it, a "thought bubble" as it were.

Collector technology uses exotic particles and not the tons and tons of hydrogen to create the bubble so no inflation of the bubble with hydrogen in that scenario.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:41 am
by Sigtrygg
MT SSoM referred to a jump bubble but it was a reference to a bubble of normal spacetime surrounding the ship. The idea that this was filled with hydrogen is pure MgT.

Re: Do jump nets make the Beowulf obsolete?

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:00 am
by Condottiere
I forgot about the psionic powered drive.

There can't be a brain trust powerful enough to open up a multi dimensional portal.