Animals Initiative?

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
ConspiracyX
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Animals Initiative?

Postby ConspiracyX » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:20 am

What do Animals use for rolling Initiative?
They are listed without Dex or Int stats.
Jeraa
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Re: Animals Initiative?

Postby Jeraa » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:48 am

ConspiracyX wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:20 am
What do Animals use for rolling Initiative?
They are listed without Dex or Int stats.
And that is one of the reasons that removing attributes from animals was a bad idea. There is now no difference between a creature that would be big and slow and one that would be small and fast (without making something up yourself).

For animals, it would just be a roll of 2d6. They don't have attributes to add/subtract from that.
GarethL
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Re: Animals Initiative?

Postby GarethL » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:32 am

The metabolism traits add or subtract from the 2d6 roll IIRC.
ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Animals Initiative?

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:02 am

ConspiracyX wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:20 am
What do Animals use for rolling Initiative?
They are listed without Dex or Int stats.
Referees determine what animals will do on the spot. They are not treated as NPCs (fellow humans). Each type of animal is treated differently. What kind of animal is in your game?
ConspiracyX
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Re: Animals Initiative?

Postby ConspiracyX » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:51 am

So I've decided/rolled the animal will attack, where does it then fit into the Initiative system?
I would prefer to have random rolls for when the creature takes their actions in the initiative order.
I know some referee's that would always give the animals the initiative over the PC's all the time!
I think I'll look back at MGT v1 and see how it was done previously.
Jeraa
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Re: Animals Initiative?

Postby Jeraa » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:05 am

GarethL wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:32 am
The metabolism traits add or subtract from the 2d6 roll IIRC.
They do. But as it is up to the Referee to choose the appropriate DM, it is still making something up yourself.
So I've decided/rolled the animal will attack, where does it then fit into the Initiative system?
I would prefer to have random rolls for when the creature takes their actions in the initiative order.
I know some referee's that would always give the animals the initiative over the PC's all the time!
I think I'll look back at MGT v1 and see how it was done previously.
I already told you. They do the check same as everything else (roll 2d6) but don't get to add any attribute modifiers.
mancerbear
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Re: Animals Initiative?

Postby mancerbear » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:55 am

Roll 2D, add or subtract DM from slow or fast metabolism. Boom, Initiative.
GarethL
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Re: Animals Initiative?

Postby GarethL » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:09 am

Jeraa wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:05 am
They do. But as it is up to the Referee to choose the appropriate DM, it is still making something up yourself.
The Metabolism trait gives you the DM - no "making something up" required at all.

I'm not 100% with no attributes for animals by any stretch, but the RAW do mostly work,
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Re: Animals Initiative?

Postby Jeraa » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:35 pm

GarethL wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:09 am
Jeraa wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:05 am
They do. But as it is up to the Referee to choose the appropriate DM, it is still making something up yourself.
The Metabolism trait gives you the DM - no "making something up" required at all.

I'm not 100% with no attributes for animals by any stretch, but the RAW do mostly work,
No, it doesn't. (except on the pre-statted animals).
Fast Metabolism (+X): The animal has a heightened metabolism and very fast reactions. It gains a DM to initiative rolls equal to the figure shown in the Fast Metabolism trait.
That is it. That is all it says. Nothing to determine what an appropriate value should be. No guidelines. Nothing.

Most of the traits are similar. They tell you nothing. You have to come up with a value yourself.
ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Animals Initiative?

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:39 pm

Jeraa wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:35 pm
Fast Metabolism (+X): The animal has a heightened metabolism and very fast reactions. It gains a DM to initiative rolls equal to the figure shown in the Fast Metabolism trait.
That is it. That is all it says. Nothing to determine what an appropriate value should be. No guidelines. Nothing.

Most of the traits are similar. They tell you nothing. You have to come up with a value yourself.
Making up an "8+" you mean? Look again at how Characteristic Checks are made. Animals use Traits as DMs instead of Characteristic Modifiers, if you are playing cowboys and indians (the boardgame) with your animals. Most animals either run away, or die. Because animals.
Jeraa
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Re: Animals Initiative?

Postby Jeraa » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:54 pm

ShawnDriscoll wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:39 pm
Jeraa wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:35 pm
Fast Metabolism (+X): The animal has a heightened metabolism and very fast reactions. It gains a DM to initiative rolls equal to the figure shown in the Fast Metabolism trait.
That is it. That is all it says. Nothing to determine what an appropriate value should be. No guidelines. Nothing.

Most of the traits are similar. They tell you nothing. You have to come up with a value yourself.
Making up an "8+" you mean? Look again at how Characteristic Checks are made. Animals use Traits as DMs instead of Characteristic Modifiers, if you are playing cowboys and indians (the boardgame) with your animals. Most animals either run away, or die. Because animals.
I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. Animals roll only 2d6 for initiative. Normally, an characteristic DM is added in (either DEX or INT, but animals have neither). Anything beyond that is Referee discretion. I've said that multiple times now.

Someone stated that Fast/Slow Metabolism adds to it. I agreed. However, there is nothing at all to determine those modifiers for non pre-stated animals. You have to come up with those modifiers yourself. So Referee discretion again. Traits are not defined, but only general statements - not even real guidelines. We went from the 1e fully stated animal design to 2es "Make Crap Up" design.

As it is, pretty much everything about animals is "make something up".
GarethL
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Re: Animals Initiative?

Postby GarethL » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:31 pm

If you want guidelines for what level of Metabolism to give a creature then consider what it's attribute would be and what DM that would give it.

But in play all you want is the DM, and all statted creatures list that.

If on the other hand you're making up a new creature, then it isn't really too much to ask that you also decide on its level of Metabolism too - after all, who knows what you want the creature to be like better than you?

It isn't like you're shooting blind here, you already know the DM for initiative for humans and a variety of animals.

The creatures bit in the core rules is small and brief, it could probably do with expansion (much like the starship rules where expanded by high guard, and the vehicle rules in the vehicle book), but they are adequate to get you by.
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Re: Animals Initiative?

Postby steve98052 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:09 pm

An animal's initiative is likely to be related to its feeding method (carrion-eater, chaser, killer, pouncer, reducer, etc.). A pouncer is probably going to have automatic initiative on the first attack, and somewhat elevated initiative if it doesn't get a meal in a single bite. A chaser is likely to have a slight, constant initiative plus. A carrion eater is likely to be slow on initiative unless someone threatens its meal, or if it's a hijack feeder.

Maybe the rules should give you a hint of that, but it shouldn't take too much pondering to guess that a cat usually wins initiative on a mouse.

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