The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

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phavoc
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The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby phavoc » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:05 pm

The Type-Y as presented in the books over various iterations has always seemed wrong to me. It's boring, it's small, it's.... everything that a plaything of the rich and famous should NOT be.

Here's a new model being launched that looks like a yacht should - the plaything of the rich!

http://robbreport.com/boating-yachting/ ... nge_module
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:31 pm

Yep. That's what I use for yachts in my games.
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby Reynard » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:40 pm

Wouldn't the air leak out?

Check out the Referees Aid 5 Type-Y Yacht for the hows, whys and whats of the yachts in Traveller. Also the iconic Traveller yacht is one example just like there is no one trader or one lab ship. With all the new ship options in HG2e, there can be many assortments across the galaxy. The Type Y just happens to be the most familiar for player character nobles.

Looking at the image on that page, I saw swept out wings towards the back and the windows still there but better sealed otherwise a good start for the exterior hull. Possibly designed as a retro romanticized styling of a old time naval craft. Why? Because we're rich.
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby Reynard » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:26 pm

Hmm, 44 meters (29 squares) long, three decks with engineering, cargo, fuel etc. below, main deck center and bridge/crew deck above. Small craft launch aft on the main deck. Transparent (with filters) walls for a promenade area aft and for the bridge area. Main sensors and avionics above the bridge deck.

"Five guest cabins are housed down below, and comprise two doubles, two twins, and one full-beam VIP stateroom, to accommodate a total of 12 guests, including the owners."
Standard, high and luxury staterooms center around the promenade. Got it.

"Everyone will appreciate the lower-deck wellness area featuring a spa and gym facilities, as well as direct access to the aft main deck. Up top on the sundeck, guests will find a Jacuzzi, dining table for 12, and sun loungers."
Biosphere as a domed sundeck above the main deck and forward of the bridge with walk up stairs. Gaming space and dining space plus Jacuzzi and spa forward on the main deck.

Nova class yacht.
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:34 pm

John Berkey did the space yacht posters for our game room back in the day.
Last edited by ShawnDriscoll on Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby paltrysum » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:29 pm

Great point about the yacht. I mean seriously? 1G and Jump-1? Almost no cargo space? You have to apply some imagination to it. First of all, how do you turn a profit? You'd have to fill those rooms with high passages, which is a fine idea, but one most nobles would probably see as beneath them. Unless you roll four Yacht benefits on the mustering-out tables, I see little alternative. How else would you make the mortgage payments? Random adventure seeds? You'd need a very cooperative referee to ensure you get assignments lucrative enough to warrant this approach. You're not technically a mercenary so expecting a steady cash flow from tickets is out of the question.

In any case, if I rolled a noble, the first thing I would beg my ref for is the opportunity to supe up those drives a bit. Jump-2 minimum and 4-G of thrust. You should be able to race these things! The Yacht has the sharp-looking design of a BMW M series, so why does it have the engines of a Kia?
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby Reynard » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:22 pm

Sounds like a few really need to read that Referees Aid 5 Type-Y Yacht and rethink why one would become a noble character. Somehow it's not about routine speculative trading. Even a free trader starts with J-1 and M-1.
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby Condottiere » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:18 pm

The default yacht is one of those legacies that were passed on from the classical age.

It's based on the alphabet soup engine set A, which automatically caps at two hundred tonnes thrust and/or jump.

As a default business practice, having a standardized hull and engine set is acceptable. since most buyers would only be interested in customizing the rest of the vessel to their tastes and needs.

However, if you do end up with a forty year old yacht, chances are it's layout was shaped by someone else's aesthetics, like whorehouse red silk and satin.
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby Epicenter » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:23 pm

paltrysum wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:29 pm
First of all, how do you turn a profit? You'd have to fill those rooms with high passages, which is a fine idea, but one most nobles would probably see as beneath them.
That's like saying "A Ferrari/Lambroghini/Konigsegg can't haul cargo and can't carry passengers. How can it turn a profit?"

It can't. Nor is it meant to, I think. I've always thought that the yacht as described in the Traveller rules is not a like the mini-cruise ships that our New Nobility, the top 1% of our Earth are custom-building and sailing around in today. It's more equivalent to the kind of ships were once included in the category of "yachts" back in the 1970s - something that the top 5% or 10% could own - like the sailing vessels they used to run the America's Cup in (before it became all obsessive) where the cost of the ship is at most around $1 million USD and probably less. The kind of ship that even a member of the middle-class could purchase and own if he or she really wanted it (I mean, many middle-class people could actually purchase a Ferrari if they wanted their life to revolve around the payments and so on, it's just that most of us don't want to live in some ratty apartment, barely scraping by for food, without any kind of savings or health insurance, etc ... but with a really fancy car).

It'd be a ship that is intended mostly for day excursions with a handful of friends. Maybe a three week in-system Jump - jump out to visit Saturn, spend a few days there, then jump back would be the most it'd do. Mostly it'd never even leave orbit. The owner might take it for a spin to relax for a few hours after a particularly hectic week or something.

Traveller has a tremendous number of nobles. I think many of those nobles are fabulously wealthy types on par with oil sheiks, robber barons, and so on ... but many, many more are not.
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby paltrysum » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:15 pm

Epicenter wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:23 pm
It can't. Nor is it meant to, I think.
Totally understood. But the reality of Traveller is that if you have a ship that's not paid off, you have a mortgage. How does a noble character who has been awarded a yacht, which is more than likely not paid off, generate the income to pay for that yacht?

It requires a little fudging and imagination from the ref if the character doesn't have a source of income in mind. There are many ways you can address this, but part of the role of the referee is not to give away the farm lest the players think everything comes easily. That said, if you want fudging, consider the possibilities:
  • Daddy pays the mortgage.
  • The noble has significant stock and corporate holdings and uses dividends and profits to pay the mortgage.
  • Land rents from your fief (e.g., a baron has a fief of "two hexes" on a given world) pay your mortgage.
Lots of ways to solve this problem. They're just a little less cut and dried than the free trader method: "Here's a ship. You have a mortage. Use the trade rules and make a profit...or else!"
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby bluekieran » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:38 pm

The standard method of generating income from a fancy yacht is to charter it out to others (crewed or "bareboat") when you're not using it, which is probably most of the year. There's a saying, apparently, that if you pay less than $X million for your yacht it costs you money, but over that horrific amount it's attractive enough that it pays for itself (and then some).
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:46 pm

It's funny this subject pops up now, just the other day I was thinking about designing a 300 dt yacht, where 200 dt are more or less exactly the same as the current type Y and the additional 100 goes to engines, jump and cargo...

That said, I don't think the current, 2nd edition yacht is boring. Look at that lower deck! Filled with gym, salon, theatre, dining hall plus a huge common area!

If you choose to store the ATV in the boat you free up the forward cargo bay to use as a garage for the owner, filled with exciting vehicles like the G-racer and tempest supercar from vehicle handbook - and you can bet the boat and ATV are just a bit more luxurious than the standard models :)

Plus I agree with epicenter, it's meant to chill and relax in, plus there are larger yacht models for the truly obscenely rich. If you want jump 2 look no further than the humble safari ship, or why not a de-militarized patrol corvette if you need more space?
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby Jame Rowe » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:21 pm

I've designed a couple of different yachts in my day, such as the Milky Wader class which is floating around here somewhere.
One is simply a J-2 variant with neither ship's boat nor ATV, while the other is J-2 M5 speedster vessel.

I designed them precisely because of the issue you've described, so let me know if you'd like me to dig up links.
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby Reynard » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:31 pm

Suddenly hit me to look in Book 8: Dilettante for idea and sure enough there are three, a 100 ton 6g executive yacht, a custom built 300 ton custom safari ship and a 400 ton touring ship. These give examples how a noble can find purpose and have the right tool for the right job. When you decide on the noble career, what is your intent? Did you plan to use your experience beyond your initial career or just wander. If you receive the yacht, how did it fit in with you experiences? Why the yacht?

The three ships above show another avenue. A free trader or the safari ship could be alternatives for profit and tied in to your career choice and explain the people you work with. Still, I can still see the yacht viable as a conveyance to places with the noble party member acting as broker for jobs rather the the vessel as the tool. A well appointed roving fixer. Nobles can find ways to make money.
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:12 pm

Ok, so I goofed around a bit with High Guard, and ended up with two different stretched 300 dt yacht designs.

For both of them I wanted to keep as much of the original vessel design as possible, increasing the hull with 100 dtons and replacing the drive and power units as well as installing a larger bridge (required when ship size exceeds 200 dt).

I haven't looked at the economics of either version, but to be honest, if you need to ask "how much?" You probably can't afford it anyways :)

First off, for the speedsters, we have a jump-2 capable yacht with insanely impressive thrust 6 manoeuver drives - and it's even got room for 10 more dtons of cargo/vehicles/fun stuff!

What? Having the fastest ship in the spaceport isn't enough? Your pocket empire is so large you're forced to spend way too much time in transit? Or perhaps you just wanna travel, see the galaxy? Well look no further, we've managed to squeeze a 3 parsec jump drive into the extended yacht hull, while keeping the luxurious interior the base model is known and loved for! The one thing you do miss out on is the air/raft garage. And speed. The jump-3 yacht retains the original type Y:s 1 G drives. It does still come with a boat though, for when time is of the essence in-system.



The "speed yacht" has jump-2, thrust-6, 20 dt power plant and 62 dt fuel (j-2 + 4 weeks). This together with the larger bridge adds up to 90 dt, leaving 10 dt for extra cargo.

The long range yacht, with jump-3, thrust-1,92 dt fuel has a smaller power plant than the speedster, but still adds up to 105 additional dt compared to the regular type Y, and thus the air/raft had to go (or the cargo bay could become smaller, if that's preferred).

Of course there are other possible designs, a less powerful m-drive on the jump-2 version means a smaller power plant and more space for luxury or cargo. Bringing advanced tech into the equation can make components smaller, and if the hull is increased to 400 dt rather than 300 there should be space for both better m and j drives, and so on...
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:19 pm

Real yachts are custom designs. The Type Y is just an example of a cheap entry-level model.
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby Condottiere » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:29 pm

You can turn anything into a yacht, even a supposedly decommissioned frigate or destroyer.

Houseboats seem an attractive option for the wanderlusty.
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby Epicenter » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:48 pm

paltrysum wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:15 pm
But the reality of Traveller is that if you have a ship that's not paid off, you have a mortgage.
I agree with you.

I feel this has been a problem that has plagued Traveller since the beginning. It's not actually an issue with the rules, it's an issue that the rules don't really fit the philosophy of the game.

In this case, I think the rules have it backwards, and I've been working on an alternative system to address it.

The concept is basically that when a player party gets a ship, it should be completely paid off. That's not the goal, it's the beginning.

However, the ship would start with the worst "wear value" imaginable. It does work, but barely. It's not going to pass yearly inspection without bribes, and probably is cruising the frontiers where it's easier to get away with a ship that is in such poor condition without it getting impounded at a starport as a "menace to shipping." This wear value is not an abstract thing - the ship has a "character sheet" of its own along with deckplans. Each "fault" with the ship would be recorded on the character sheet. Issues with a ship would be broken down into various subsystems such as "hull", "engineering", "bridge", etc. Furthermore each problem would be rated as "critical", "serious", and "minor."

Each result of a "ship", instead of reducing payments would eliminate some problem (such as one critical problem or two serious/minor problems).


A sample might be: "3 doors on the ship have a problem. Choose three doors in the starship, starting with Iris Valves first. If your ship has less than three doors, all of them have an issue. The players and any NPC crew are aware of all of these problems.

Critical: The door is totally non-functional. The door cannot be repaired without an expensive replacement and rebuilding of the area. Repairing this problem will cost (1d6+6 x 100,000 Cr).
* The door is missing.
* The door is permanently stuck permanently open or closed position (critical areas must be accessible in some way), A critical door may have a shoddy work-around, such as a hull plate welded over air lock door (in which case the ship must be accessed in some other way).
* Old starship damage has blown open a wall by the door. The door is permanently jammed into the wall (possibly partially melted). An obvious hole that may be moved through with some care exists near the door. This may be the access into areas beyond the door if it is necessary to access a critical area or it may be crudely repaired using substandard repairs at some point totally cutting off access to a non-critical location or forcing a longer trip to use a different method to get in.

Serious: The door is at least semi-functional but has the potential to fail dangerously. Repairing this problem will cost (1d6 x 50,000Cr).
* An Iris valve does not always open all the way and does not close securely.
* An airlock door does not respond to commands - the command panel has been removed and two wires must be touched to open the door and close it, or the command panel has a tendency to short-circuit on occasion, opening (or closing) by itself.
* Safety features on an automatic door are inoperative in such a way that the door may be closed on a person causing severe injury or death.

Minor: The door is mostly functional but may fail in ways that are usually simply annoying but may be serious on occasion. Repairing this problem will cost (1d2 x 10,000Cr).

* The door's command panel intermittently will not respond to commands. In emergency situations, to open the door, it requires a roll of 7+ to operate the door, if the roll is failed, it may be tried next turn but requires the action of an entire player (it represents the player furious jamming the button multiple times).
* The door cannot be locked. The lock is either missing or ruined.
* The door works, but does not show its status on internal sensors - it does not show if it is locked, unlocked, open, or closed. Any internal sensors (such as closed-circuit TV) that might show the door's status are similarly non-functional. The door's status must be verified personally by a crewmember.


Other problems with a ship might include exotic issues like, "Unknown to the current operators, a stowaway once boarded the ship then died on-board the ship. The body was never discovered. The GM is free to put the unfortunate's skeletal (or possibly mummified) remains in a location that is believable. Example locations might be in an old vacuum-sealable storage crate in the cargo hold, in the ship's freezer under a layer of ice, wedged into some rarely used engineering crawlway or crushed behind some machine, sealed into a narrow space between the inner pressure hull and the outer impact hull of the starship when access to that area was hastily welded shut during a field or emergency repair, or trapped in the landing gear well. This body will be discovered at some inopportune time - most likely a starship inspection or perhaps a passenger finds it but keeps silent about it before anonymously reporting it to authorities at the next starport. Regardless, news about the body will spread leading to a criminal investigation which the players will likely be able to clear their names but not before the ship and the crew of the ship are thoroughly investigated."
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby atpollard » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:19 am

phavoc wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:05 pm
The Type-Y as presented in the books over various iterations has always seemed wrong to me. It's boring, it's small, it's.... everything that a plaything of the rich and famous should NOT be.
Here's a new model being launched that looks like a yacht should - the plaything of the rich!
http://robbreport.com/boating-yachting/ ... nge_module
The Type Y is not my favorite design either, but as an interesting fact ... the Heesen Yachts Launches Project Nova Yacht you linked to is about 50 meters long, making it no greater than about 8 meters wide by 8 meters tall. A 50m x 8m x 8m bounding box encloses 3200 cubic meters. At 1 dTon = 14 cubic meters, that makes that yacht in the link less than 228 dTons (probably closer to 140 dTons).

So the Type Y is, in fact, not too small.
It is just too ugly. ;)
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Re: The Type-Y kind of Yachts we should be seeing

Postby Reynard » Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:34 am

Seriously folks, GIVE your players and the very low level noble player- character a destroyer fully armed but with wood panel appointments, a spa and luxury staterooms and let them go trading. Rule Zero.

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