Pocket Trader

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
PsiTraveller
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby PsiTraveller » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:02 pm

Good catch, I missed the streamlined restriction. Jump Net it is then. You lose a ton of cargo space to carry 100 tons of cargo. It will pay for itself in 2 trips. It does restrict you to the Highport until you unload the Net.

I guess a Docking Clamp could be added. It makes the ship unstreamlined while being used, but you could carry a cargo pod and let it go for deliveries. A 1 Million credit clamp could hold 99 tons and pay for itself in under a year. You could also take small ships as a service.
If you gave up 10 tons and added 2 Million to the cost you could carry 100 - 300 tons of material. At 100 tons capacity you would be able to carry 100 ton ships between J2 gaps. That could be a good service to offer, and the 100 ton cargo pod would be an option.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:32 pm

bluekieran wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:29 pm
Is guess "distributed" should read "dispersed"?
Presumably. I did not even see the difference.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:38 pm

PsiTraveller wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:02 pm
Jump Net it is then. You lose a ton of cargo space to carry 100 tons of cargo. It will pay for itself in 2 trips. It does restrict you to the Highport until you unload the Net.

I guess a Docking Clamp could be added.
For extra credits you place the Clamps / Nets / Cargo in a module so you can reconfigure the ship as needed.
PsiTraveller
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby PsiTraveller » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:19 pm

Modular Hull increases the cost of the Hull, but going 10 tons (10 percent) and adding a few million in cost would pay dividends down the line. The extra cargo capacity will really increase income possibilities. Cargo Battle Riders is what it basically is. The ability to carry more tonnage than your base hull is what will allow a ship to make more money. Adding in a Jump Net changes the cargo capacity from the 30 ton range to 130 tons. It is the plot hook for two of the items I have on TAS. :)
bluekieran
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby bluekieran » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:35 pm

PsiTraveller wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:02 pm
Good catch, I missed the streamlined restriction. Jump Net it is then. You lose a ton of cargo space to carry 100 tons of cargo. It will pay for itself in 2 trips. It does restrict you to the Highport until you unload the Net.
The extra mass also reduces your jump/thrust scores, so you may only be able to Jump-1 with the net out unless you increase the drive (and fuel tanks) to compensate.

Edit: I've added a bit to my spreadsheet that calculates jump range with a full net, haven't yet added an option to upgrade the J-drive automatically though.
Reynard
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby Reynard » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:49 pm

Great to see people here already showing how the PT would be modified around the galaxy. Like I say, no two alike. Now add in some quirks as other Travellers find older PTs for sale.
PsiTraveller
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby PsiTraveller » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:28 pm

Bluekieran: That is why I added 4 tons of extra M Drive and 5 more tons of Jump Drive to maintain the Jump 2 capacity and Thrust 2. 5 Tons of Jump Drive allows 100 more tons of J2, so it is a good investment.
At 100 ton loadout the ship could do a Jump 4, except that the Jump Drives are too low in tech level.

This small pocket ship design is ripe for Jump Drive upgrades and computer upgrades to increase Jump Rating and go after the 7000 a ton market as well, and the courier market.
Condottiere
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby Condottiere » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:24 pm

If you float down to the surface, streamlining is not an issue.
bluekieran
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby bluekieran » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:28 pm

PsiTraveller wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:28 pm
Bluekieran: That is why I added 4 tons of extra M Drive and 5 more tons of Jump Drive to maintain the Jump 2 capacity and Thrust 2. 5 Tons of Jump Drive allows 100 more tons of J2, so it is a good investment.
I missed that, apologies!
PsiTraveller
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby PsiTraveller » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:00 am

Reynard. I have looked over your redesign and am a little confused. You have a ship costing MCr 27.895 and 2325 a month in Maintenance. Add in a couple of salaries for Captain, pilot, astrogator and engineer between the 2 staterooms of people and you have 10 - 20 000 Credits a month.

Your ship does not make money running Freight and has to use the Low Berth income to break even, right? Is that the business model? Or am I missing something?

Cargo 37.5 tons J2 Freight is 1600 a Jump. That is 60 000 Credits a Jump, 2 Jumps a month is 120 000.

Mortgage on 27.895 is 116, 229 a month plus 2325 is 118,554. So you only make 1500 credits profit a month, minus salaries. 13 000 a trip is you get all lowberths filled. So there is another 26000 income possible. Minus any port fees.
Reynard
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby Reynard » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:01 am

Yeah, like players running Free Traders aren't constantly whining about slim to no profit margins with twice the cargo space and half the range.

First I could say the Pocket Trader is similar to a scout able to operate with only one or two people. Even still, the nature of pocket traders are forgoing regular pay for cuts in whatever profits after expenses are subtracted. Gives an incentive to do well no matter what it takes which might explain why concealed compartments and fuel tank compartments are... considered. Small package trade is probably a regular pastime. The mortgage lender doesn't care where the payments come from just that they're on time and the ship is still mostly intact.

Another aspect is they are cheap compared to a Free Trader. Doesn't matter if they aren't optimized for a trade route. Travellers see the better possibility for owning a vessel. This become more important when it's a second hand ship and you have a handful of ship shares. Actually paying for it becomes an adventure followed by a lot of adventures involving seedy taverns in star town and Imperial entanglements.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:22 am

I get break-even at best:

Jumps / Year: 25

Cost / Jump . . . kCr
Mortgage . . . . . .55,3
Maintenance . . . . 1,1
Fuel . . . . . . . . . . .2,1
Life Support . . . . .2,4
Salaries . . . . . . . . 4,8
Berthing, average .1,8
Cost . . . . . . . . . . 67,4

Revenue / Jump kCr
Low . . . . . . . . 13,0
Cargo . . . . . . .59,2
Revenue . . . . . 72,2

Potential kCr . . .4,8
Year MCr . . . . . . 0,1

And that is as it should be in an Adventuring Ship?

If we speed up the turn over time, so that we can make more jumps per year things look better. At 30 jumps per year we could make kCr 500 / year, best case.
Juums
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby Juums » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:12 pm

I'll throw out a few thoughts on the economics of the Flea Trader concept:
1) Not all cargo is necessarily equal, even within the abstractions of 2e MgT system. Specifically, while freight moves at 1,600cr/ton on a J-2 route, mail moves at 5,000cr/ton. Swap out 5 tons of freight for a 5-ton mail drum and you've got a modest -- but sustainable -- 30-35kcr/month profit margin even using a full mortgage and only two jumps per month on average.

2) I think the problem of a full mortgage's cost creates opportunities for interesting world-building. In the context of a barebones hundred-ton everyship, it's entirely possible that either the Imperium or local planetary government subsidize construction of ships of this sort. Perhaps it's a planetary initiative to promote the growth of its native merchant marine or further the develop of its own shipbuilding capabilities? Maybe the Imperium sees it as a useful policy, because the Flea Trader is similar enough to the Type-S that in a bind they can be conscripted to do similar duties? Or maybe the Imperial or Subsector Navies do it to ensure that local shipyards continue to operate and preserve construction capabilities rather than idle themselves? Sky's the limit on the question of why someone's artificially lowering the cost of the Flea Trader.

3) I've always thought 24 jumps a year only made sense for adventurers and those who're not particularly concerned with the time-value of money. Which meant it was on the light side of things for a strictly commercial operator hauling freight and mail. 36 jumps a year makes more sense to my addled little mind, and it's what I use in my games, as that still puts you in port 10 days or so a month and provides sufficient time to refuel, find new lots of freight, and new low-berth passengers. It also conveniently cures most of the economic issues with the Flea Trader. One might even make the higher-than-recommended jump schedule necessary to keep a Flea Trader profitable as a world-building hook, as spacers have distinct views on Flea Traders and their crews because of the additional work they demand.
steve98052
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby steve98052 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:25 pm

As I see it, the only way to make a really small ship economically justifiable is for it to be used as a subsidized mail ship for routes that don't have enough cargo traffic to be served by a regular cargo route, but do still expect to be in communication with the rest of the Imperium. An operator of such a ship could try to make extra money by filling out extra cargo space with random cargo, but the main duty would be the mail run.

Unfortunately, there's not much room for adventure in a fixed mail route. So, this is more likely a type of ship an adventuring party would see in the next berth in the starport than one they'd want for adventuring.

However, although some types of ships may not make economic sense, they may have other reasons to exist. For example, there's no economic sense in a yacht, but people still buy them. This sort of design might fit into the niche of the low budget yacht, in addition to subsidized mail.
Condottiere
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby Condottiere » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:08 pm

Basically, a Flea Trader is run by Han solo without a Wookie sidekick.
AndrewW
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby AndrewW » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:17 am

Condottiere wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:08 pm
Basically, a Flea Trader is run by Han solo without a Wookie sidekick.
Could have an Aslan sidekick.
PsiTraveller
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby PsiTraveller » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:29 am

A lovable astro-mech droid with some software quirks.
PsiTraveller
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby PsiTraveller » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:01 am

Rock Bottom Pocket Trader
TL 11 Planetoid Hull: J2 at 200 Ton equivalent tonnage

Hull Points 62.5
Tonnage 125: Internal Volume 100 Tons Cost 0.5
Armour: 2
M Drive: Thrust 2 at 200 Tons: Tons 4 Cost 8
J Drive J2 @ 200 Tons: Tons 15 Cost: 22.5
Power Plant: TL 8 Fusion Tons 7 Cost: 3.5
Fuel Operatons: 1 Ton
Fuel Jump: 40 (J2 @ 200 Tons)
Bridge: 10 Tons Cost 0.5
Computer 5Bis Cost 0.045
Sensors: basic: Cost 0.045
Weapons: 1 Turret Tons: 1 Cost .2
Weapons: Missile: Cost 0.75
1 Ton Ammo storage
Accomodation: 2 Staterooms: Tons: 8 Cost: 1
4 Low Berths: Tons: Tons 2 Cost: 0.2
Common Area: Tons 2 Cost .2
Fuel Scoops: Cost 1
Fuel Processor: Tons: 1 Cost: .05
Cargo: Internal 8 Tons
External Cargo mounts 75 Tons: Cost 0.075
Power Needed:
basic 25, M Drive 40, J Drive 40, Fuel Processor 1, Turret 1
70 Power available

Cost: 38.765 Million Credits
Mortgage = 161, 520 Credits per month
Maintenance = 3243/month

Income: 75 Tons J2 @1600 = 240 000 Credits per month
8 Tons Internal = 25,600 per month
Total Income 265,600 - 161,520 = 96,448 profit to pay salaries and life support.
This assumes all tonnage filled with freight only, no spec freight
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:32 am

A regular 100 dT hull (Spherical, light) will be in the region of MCr 3 more expensive, but it will carry 25 dT more cargo. In other words it would be ~10% more expensive, but carry ~30% more cargo, so will be more profitable (if we can fill it...).
Condottiere
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Re: Pocket Trader

Postby Condottiere » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:02 pm

Condottiere wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:13 pm
Starships: Cheapest Possible

Bill of materials

1. One Venture budget jump drive module factor one
... 11.25 Megaschmuckers

2. Three Tokimeki early fusion power budget plant modules twenty four scott output
... 1.125 megaschmuckers

3. One Pebble budget manoeuvre drive module factor one third
... 1.0 megaschmuckers

4. One ten tonne bridge
... 0.5 megaschmuckers

5. One stateroom four tonnes
... 0.5 megaschmuckers

6. One iron nickel planetoid one hundred twenty tonnes
... 0.48 megaschmuckers

7. One computer five bandwidth
... 0.03 megaschmuckers


Total
... 14.885 megaschmuckers
I've revised accounting practices for determining jump drive costs, and it's now nine million schmuckers for the ten tonne motor.

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