What happened to Zero-G?

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Jak Nazryth
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What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Jak Nazryth » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:44 am

After making my 3rd NPC, (Belter background) I suddenly realized there is no Zero-G skill!
Ummm... why? It looks like the catch-all "Athletics-Dex" is now the skill for Zero-G. But that means somebody who grew up planet side their whole life has the same chance of operating im Zero-G as somebody raised in an Asteroid field. So a belter with 20 years of experience rolls the same Athletics-Dex check as someone growing up on a planet, someone who takes a space walk for the very first time. No special training required.
Other than making a change for the sake of change itself, why was Zero-G removed for MgT2??? Zero-G is a Traveller skill that's been around for almost 40 years!
I don't get it.
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby legozhodani » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:24 am

Make the checks easier for those who grew up or have a low G background. What a G bound player may find awkward (8+) is routine (6+) or less for trained. Thus better than having the skill.
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:11 pm

To be fair, the zero-G skill itself was very rarely used, more or less a passive skill. Most of the time when there is no gravity I imagine the traveller will be in a vacc suit, so that skill could be used, or athletics(dex). Vacc suit could even be suitable if a character needs to manoeuver in zero G when without suit, if we assume that skill covers both the suit and using it (to move around in 0 G amongst other things)
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:28 pm

Use the Vacc Suit skill if you need to.
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Jak Nazryth
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Jak Nazryth » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:10 am

I've decided on running my game under MgT1 so the point is mute anyway.
I'll borrow some elements from MgT2 like the new Training rules, and perhaps some elements of the ship building rules (I always disliked the "A,B,C" regimented sizes of engines, and I like the fact that MgT2 has made the switch to power requirements) But otherwise MgT1 is just as good as any system.
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Jame Rowe » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:07 pm

Annatar Giftbringer wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:11 pm
To be fair, the zero-G skill itself was very rarely used, more or less a passive skill. Most of the time when there is no gravity I imagine the traveller will be in a vacc suit, so that skill could be used, or athletics(dex). Vacc suit could even be suitable if a character needs to manoeuver in zero G when without suit, if we assume that skill covers both the suit and using it (to move around in 0 G amongst other things)
This is always what I figured the rule was.
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Condottiere » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:23 pm

You can turn off the gravity plates, but still maintain life support.

So movement and functioning or optimally utilizing the features on a powered suit tend to be different.

It seems to be some form of ballet.
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby vladthemad » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:19 pm

I've gone the way Jak has as well, I'm sticking with 1st ed. Granted, 0G is a passive skill, just like Vacc Suit and a few others. With 2nd ed. I thought Mongoose meant to combine the skills of vacc suit with 0G, but after some thought that's not that logical. 0G isn't always used in a vacc suit, and vacc suits aren't always used in 0G. Athletics is a poor replacement for actual 0G training. There's a lot more to operating in 0G than just being physically fit. What's worse, unless it's changed since the beta, careers that really should have access to 0G, like the Merchant-Free Trader and Scout-Explorer, don't. I mean if anyone is going to bumbling about in space it's going to be those two!
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby mancerbear » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:11 am

Anybody operated in zero-G IRL to add their opinion on how tough it is, or if being athletically agile is enough?
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Hopeless » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:43 am

So someone who spent two decades working in the depths of space is less capable in zero g than the Olympic athlete who has never left his home world his entire life?

Using the Vacc Suit skill might help, but what was the reason for this change?

I admit I was more annoyed they swapped out Social from the table where you can improve your characteristics more than the fact they replaced this with the Athletics skill.

Maybe they think in the future they need help getting fit?
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Condottiere » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:53 am

Light gravity and zero gravity aren't optimal environments for us, even in the short term.

However, operating under zero gravity conditions means being able to work without a discernible downward force, and being used to and unconsciously understanding and compensating for that.

It has to be like swimming: I can swim, but I'm not Michael Phelps nor can I really synchronize with anyone while bopping up and down in water, but I can move from point to point, dive, and thankfully, resurface.

That would be swimming skill level zero.
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Nathan Brazil » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:50 am

Couldn't you assign a Bane to skill checks to operate outside you "native" gravity field?

OTOH consider, you don't give your zero-g belters (20 years experience or natives) "Heavy-G" skill to operate in standard grav environs. Or did they before?
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby h1ro » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:57 pm

I get the impression that part of 2e's brief was to simplify things to include streamlining skills. There are plenty I don't agree with (it's way more difficult to shoot a pistol than it is a rifle but that's a dead horse I don't want to flog) and likewise I don't agree with athletics (dex) as the appropriate skill for zero G. If I wanted to house rule it I'd probably resurrect zero g as a skill rather than vacc suit tho vacc suit is a good alternative. It's true that vacc suits are not used exclusively in zero G, I like to use a specialisation of survival as the skill of choice for extreme environments with vacc suit being the skill needed to make sure your suit is working - passive skill really but it's there if you want to fall back on it or chain it to a survival roll.
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Hopeless » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:26 pm

Interesting idea, been watching the Expanse and their use of Vacc Suits.
I still think there's a place for the zero g skill perhaps a new Athletics speciality instead of Dexterity?
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:45 pm

People that play only by what's ruled will need to use MgT1 if they want their Zero-G skill back.

For everyone else, Zero-G wasn't thought all the way through. See belters walking on 1G planets. And see belters with no Zero-G skill even. Also see non-belters needing Gravity skill.

MgT2 needed to advance from such rule-playing.
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Condottiere » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:51 pm

You can always tie it to a survival skill.
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby locarno24 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:23 am

I'd agree with boons or banes as appropriate to background.

The problem with Zero-G as a skill is it's not something you ever 'do' - you rarely start your turn and say "I'm going to Zero-G" - you are pushing yourself around (athletics), or shooting (gun combat) or trying to turn the bloody gravity back on (mechanic), you just happen to be doing whatever you're doing in Zero gravity.

Should someone with a Zero-G background gain a bonus in the situation? Yes.

An Olympic acrobat who's never been offworld will be much more capable than a standard dude who's never been offworld, so I'm fine with athletics being the skill that drives it, but so will a slightly podgy middle-aged asteroid miner who's been in zero-g for half an hour every few days for most of his working life, and he really shouldn't have a high athletics skill.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Condottiere » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:15 pm

There would be a period of disorientation.

Probably more important if the gravity field suddenly switches off during a pirate raid.
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby Jame Rowe » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:08 am

Condottiere wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:51 pm
You can always tie it to a survival skill.
Go for it if you like it.
Personally I would still use Vacsuit skill - as in, time spent in a suit in 0-g.
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Re: What happened to Zero-G?

Postby xnet445 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:07 am

How about applying a bane if you don't have Zero G experience, and applying a boon only if you have extensive Zero G training a la Star Marines?

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