Flexible Breakaway Ship System

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AnotherDilbert
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Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:28 pm

Combining wbnc's external cargo concept
viewtopic.php?f=89&t=119916
with steve's LASH concept:
viewtopic.php?p=914262#p914262
we get:

Flexible Breakaway Ship System

We start with a 160 dT jump spine with crew quarters (8 crew), a 40 dT bridge, and a 50 dT jump drive (MCr 106) that can do J-1 with 1800 dT, J-2 with 900 dT, and J-3 with 600 dT. Fuel by a 150 dT streamlined exterior tank (drop tank). To this we can attach breakaway sections with the desired capability. Each section contains m-drive (1 G), power, and a basic bridge. The jump spine and selected sections are streamlined, sections carrying external payload are dispersed.

Jump Spine: Streamlined, 160 dT, Crew: 8 (Pilot, Nav, Purser/Admin, 5[Eng+Maint]). MCr 104
Thrust Section: Streamlined, 40 dT, Provides 1 G extra thrust for 1800 dT, requires one extra Engineer. MCr 40
External cargo section: A dispersed 10 dT section with external cargo mounts and jump nets for 300 dT. Cockpit, 1G. MCr 9
Clamp section: Light 10 dT, 5 × 30dT clamp, MCr 7; Medium 20 dT, 300 dT clamp, MCr 11, Heavy, 50 dT, 1500 dT clamp, MCr 43. Cockpit, 1G.
Shuttle, Cargo/Fuel: Streamlined, 30 dT, M-3, Grav, 20 dT cargo, Cargo crane, Grappling arm, MCr 10
Internal Cargo Lighter: Streamlined, 100 dT, M-3, Grav, 80 dT cargo, Cargo crane, MCr 22
Internal Cargo Lighter, Large: Streamlined, 300 dT, M-2, Grav, 260 dT cargo, Cargo crane, MCr 52
Passenger Lighter: Streamlined, 100 dT, M-2, Grav, 15 staterooms, 30 escape capsule, 8 dT hydroponics, 1 dT cargo, MCr 26
Liner Section: Streamlined, 260 dT, M-1, 44 staterooms, 62 escape capsule, 22 dT hydroponics, 5 dT cargo, MCr 56

We can combine sections as we see fit, e.g.:
Bulk hauler, 1800 dT, J-1: Jump Spine (160 dT, MCr 95), Drop tank (180 dT, MCr 4,5), 5 × Ext Cargo (50 dT + 1410 ext cargo, MCr 45)

Slow LASH, 1800 dT, J-1: Jump Spine (160 dT, MCr 95), Drop tank (180 dT, MCr 4,5), Thrust section (40 dT, MCr 40), 4 × Large Cargo Lighter (1200 dT, MCr 208), 2 × Passenger Lighter (200 dT, MCr 52)

Wilderness trader, 900 dT, J-2: Jump Spine (150 dT, MCr 95), Drop tank (180 dT, MCr 4,5), Passenger Lighter (100 dT, MCr 26), Cargo Lighter (100 dT, MCr 22), 2 Shuttles (60 dT, MCr 20), Ext Cargo (10 dT + 290 dT cargo)

Liner, 600 dT, J-3: Jump Spine (160 dT, MCr 95), Drop tank (180 dT, MCr 4,5), Liner section (260 dT, MCr 56)
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:49 pm

Jump Ferry, 900 dT, J-2: Jump Spine (150 dT, MCr 95), Drop tank (180 dT, MCr 4,5), 2 × Clamp Section (40 dT, MCr 22), Light Clamp section (10 dT, MCr 7). Can ferry 510 dT of crafts, e.g. 2 Free Traders. With a Heavy Clamp it could ferry a Subbie.
phavoc
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby phavoc » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:18 pm

These designs are harkening back to TNE with the jump tenders carrying smaller in-system craft and traders.

A slight modification of the ships would allow you to have a ship that delivers modular sections for space stations. The only real changes that I can think of would be the external clamps that would be holding pre-built sections of a station. Some would be larger than others.

Another option would be for the ship to be modified to drop off interdiction or survey or any types of satellites. The crew sections would probably be larger to accommodate crews, but all you need would be the clamps to hold larger satellites, or storage sections for smaller ones.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:44 pm

phavoc wrote:These designs are harkening back to TNE with the jump tenders carrying smaller in-system craft and traders.
Quite.
phavoc wrote:A slight modification of the ships would allow you to have a ship that delivers modular sections for space stations. The only real changes that I can think of would be the external clamps that would be holding pre-built sections of a station. Some would be larger than others.

Another option would be for the ship to be modified to drop off interdiction or survey or any types of satellites. The crew sections would probably be larger to accommodate crews, but all you need would be the clamps to hold larger satellites, or storage sections for smaller ones.
Clamp sections already defined:
AnotherDilbert wrote: Clamp section: Light 10 dT, 5 × 30dT clamp, MCr 7; Medium 20 dT, 300 dT clamp, MCr 11, Heavy, 50 dT, 1500 dT clamp, MCr 43. Cockpit, 1G.
Example:
Jump Ferry, 900 dT, J-2: Jump Spine (150 dT, MCr 95), Drop tank (180 dT, MCr 4,5), Heavy Clamp Section (50 dT, MCr 43). Can carry a 510 dT hull J-2 or a 1410 dT hull J-1.
GamingGlen
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby GamingGlen » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:26 pm

phavoc wrote:These designs are harkening back to TNE with the jump tenders carrying smaller in-system craft and traders.
I sold my TNE books, but still have the Aurora clipper ship miniature. With a campaign idea (episodic missions while on long range exploration) in mind to use it, I've designed (with deck plans) a version with various modules using HG1 plus parts of other supplements. So I've watched all these designs with keen interest, while waiting to get my hard copy of HG2.

The forward section has the bridge, crew quarters, infirmary, while the aft section has all the engineering components. I had a couple of the modules being odd shaped fueling vessels (crescent-shaped like most other modules) instead of using the normal refueling shuttle (although it could be added as well). Modules are fuel tank, refueler/fuel tank shuttle, cargo, research*, fighter carrier*, and troop carrier*, and one extra spinal mount (the mini has one). I made up "heavy grappling arms" for external use to help manage modules because the normal ones were limited to two tons capacity. (Really? Two tons? what use is that?) Both "spinal mounts" are really 50 tons bays, quite large for a base 700 ton hull.

*these include staterooms and power for life support for the additional personnel these modules need.
Glen
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:27 pm

GamingGlen wrote:I sold my TNE books, but still have the Aurora clipper ship miniature. With a campaign idea (episodic missions while on long range exploration) in mind to use it, I've designed (with deck plans) a version with various modules using HG1 plus parts of other supplements. So I've watched all these designs with keen interest, while waiting to get my hard copy of HG2.
As far as I can remember it was easier in TNE, you did not pay anything extra for modules.

GamingGlen wrote:I made up "heavy grappling arms" for external use to help manage modules because the normal ones were limited to two tons capacity. (Really? Two tons? what use is that?) Both "spinal mounts" are really 50 tons bays, quite large for a base 700 ton hull.
To handle modules I would suggest a small tug craft. Grappling arm capable of handling ~50 dT modules would be massive...
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby wbnc » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:23 am

GamingGlen wrote:
phavoc wrote:These designs are harkening back to TNE with the jump tenders carrying smaller in-system craft and traders.
I sold my TNE books, but still have the Aurora clipper ship miniature. With a campaign idea (episodic missions while on long range exploration) in mind to use it, I've designed (with deck plans) a version with various modules using HG1 plus parts of other supplements. So I've watched all these designs with keen interest, while waiting to get my hard copy of HG2.

The forward section has the bridge, crew quarters, infirmary, while the aft section has all the engineering components. I had a couple of the modules being odd shaped fueling vessels (crescent-shaped like most other modules) instead of using the normal refueling shuttle (although it could be added as well). Modules are fuel tank, refueler/fuel tank shuttle, cargo, research*, fighter carrier*, and troop carrier*, and one extra spinal mount (the mini has one). I made up "heavy grappling arms" for external use to help manage modules because the normal ones were limited to two tons capacity. (Really? Two tons? what use is that?) Both "spinal mounts" are really 50 tons bays, quite large for a base 700 ton hull.

*these include staterooms and power for life support for the additional personnel these modules need.
I had a similar idea. this one had a long central spine with multiple docking clamps for various size loads.Fitting it with semi-permanent modules wouldn't be that big of a problem so it could be converted into a multi-function jack or trades vessel.
The 1e version is in "Ships of gold" over on drivethruRPG...
Image
AndrewW
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby AndrewW » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:43 am

GamingGlen wrote:I made up "heavy grappling arms" for external use to help manage modules because the normal ones were limited to two tons capacity. (Really? Two tons? what use is that?)
New edition contains Heavy Grappling Arm (10 tons) and they can be combined if you need more then 10 tons).
steve98052
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby steve98052 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:06 am

AnotherDilbert wrote:Combining wbnc's external cargo concept
viewtopic.php?f=89&t=119916
with steve's LASH concept:
viewtopic.php?p=914262#p914262
we get:

Flexible Breakaway Ship System
Nice work. I am inclined to rule that drop tanks are not safe enough for routine use (instead, they're for emergency military use), but otherwise I'm impressed.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:16 am

steve98052 wrote:Nice work.
Thanks.
steve98052 wrote:I am inclined to rule that drop tanks are not safe enough for routine use (instead, they're for emergency military use), but otherwise I'm impressed.
Nowadays a drop tank costs kCr 25 / dT, and a basic non-gravity hull by an amazing coincidence costs kCr 25 / dT. Reasonably drop tanks are basically made to the same specification as a regular hull. They are not armoured and will not survive combat, but otherwise they should be sturdy enough?
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:19 am

AndrewW wrote:
GamingGlen wrote:I made up "heavy grappling arms" for external use to help manage modules because the normal ones were limited to two tons capacity. (Really? Two tons? what use is that?)
New edition contains Heavy Grappling Arm (10 tons) and they can be combined if you need more then 10 tons).
Can a Heavy Grappling Arm handle 10 displacement ton or 10 tonnes?
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby steve98052 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:41 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
steve98052 wrote:I am inclined to rule that drop tanks are not safe enough for routine use (instead, they're for emergency military use), but otherwise I'm impressed.
Nowadays a drop tank costs kCr 25 / dT, and a basic non-gravity hull by an amazing coincidence costs kCr 25 / dT. Reasonably drop tanks are basically made to the same specification as a regular hull. They are not armoured and will not survive combat, but otherwise they should be sturdy enough?
What I mean is the type of drop tanks that are detached as a ship enters jump. If it's carried through jump, I'd call it just an external tank. Which did you mean?
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:26 pm

steve98052 wrote:
AnotherDilbert wrote:Nowadays a drop tank costs kCr 25 / dT, and a basic non-gravity hull by an amazing coincidence costs kCr 25 / dT. Reasonably drop tanks are basically made to the same specification as a regular hull. They are not armoured and will not survive combat, but otherwise they should be sturdy enough?
What I mean is the type of drop tanks that are detached as a ship enters jump. If it's carried through jump, I'd call it just an external tank. Which did you mean?
Drop Tanks, HG, p36. If you do not drop them they stay with you through the jump.

MgT2 High Guard has no other external tanks?
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby AndrewW » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:44 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:Can a Heavy Grappling Arm handle 10 displacement ton or 10 tonnes?
Tons in Mongoose Traveller is displacement tons.
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:09 pm

AndrewW wrote:
AnotherDilbert wrote:Can a Heavy Grappling Arm handle 10 displacement ton or 10 tonnes?
Tons in Mongoose Traveller is displacement tons.
It's not quite that simple?
Weapons of a mass of 250 kg or more will consume an amount of space equal to their mass, to a minimum of 1 ton. They are required to be mounted in turrets (if they mass one ton or less) or fixed mounts and again, will consume no power.
HG. p32
Mass Driver
...

Code: Select all

Weapon       TL  Range  Damage  Tons   Cost
Mass Driver  12    40     1DD     7   MCr0.5
CSC, p128
steve98052
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby steve98052 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:15 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:Drop Tanks, HG, p36. If you do not drop them they stay with you through the jump.

MgT2 High Guard has no other external tanks?
OK, we're just puzzling over terminology. In my mind, a drop tank means one that is dropped entering jump. A tank that isn't dropped is just an external tank, even if it's the same equipment.

So you meant to use drop tanks as external tanks, not dropped? That's cool.
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:47 pm

steve98052 wrote:So you meant to use drop tanks as external tanks, not dropped? That's cool.
Yes.

They are a bit too expensive to drop at several MCr á piece.
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby steve98052 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:54 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:They are a bit too expensive to drop at several MCr á piece.
On the other hand, if you're a Navy squadron and jump into a system with five enemy squadrons, and you can leave by dropping them during jump, a few MCr each sounds like a good deal.
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby GamingGlen » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:01 pm

To handle modules I would suggest a small tug craft. Grappling arm capable of handling ~50 dT modules would be massive...
I think you're wrong on this. Is there any correlation to mass and volume? Is 1 to 1 a fair ratio?

Canadarm 2 (and this is a TL 7-8 device):
(from https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stat ... s/mss.html

Length 15 meters (49.2 feet) 17.6 meters (57.7 feet)
Weight 410.5 kilograms (905 pounds) 1,800 kilograms (3,968 pounds)
Diameter (exterior diameter of composite boom) 33 centimeters (13 inches) 35 centimeters (13.8 inches)

Mass Handling Capacity
29,484 kilograms (65,001 pounds) - design case handling payload.
Upgraded to 266,000 kilograms (586,429 pounds)
116,000 kilograms (255,736 pounds) - design case handling payload.
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Re: Flexible Breakaway Ship System

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:32 pm

GamingGlen wrote:
To handle modules I would suggest a small tug craft. Grappling arm capable of handling ~50 dT modules would be massive...
I think you're wrong on this. Is there any correlation to mass and volume? Is 1 to 1 a fair ratio?

Canadarm 2 (and this is a TL 7-8 device):
I looked at the Heavy Grappling Arm (HG, p44). A 6 dT arm can manipulate 10 dT. It might be more capable than you need though, it can reach 250 m.

A 5 × 6 = 30 dT arm is required to manipulate a 50 dT object. A 10 dT tug can do the same, and is not limited in range.

The Canadarm 2 seems to have a much more favourable weight ratio, but much less reach. I guess you could make something in between, say a fairly short arm with a 1:5 ratio?

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