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Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:32 pm
by GamingGlen
Reynard wrote:"...TL 9 Early Surveyor 200 tons MCr. 73.96...Workshop, Library..."
Why would such a room as a "library" be on a future spaceship? Do cruise ships or freighters have libraries today? Instead, make it a conference room for the various department heads or scientists to get together to discuss things. It could double as a reading room if one is desired, but the regular staterooms could suffice for that.

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:47 pm
by AnotherDilbert
GamingGlen wrote:Why would such a room as a "library" be on a future spaceship?
Library (TL8)
A library room contains computer files as well as lecterns, display screens, holotanks and perhaps even hard copies of books. A good library is useful for both research and passing time in jump space.

Having a library on board a ship grants DM+1 on any EDU check made when training for new skills in jump space or other periods of extended inactivity.

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:09 am
by GamingGlen
AnotherDilbert wrote:
GamingGlen wrote:Why would such a room as a "library" be on a future spaceship?
Library (TL8)
A library room contains computer files as well as lecterns, display screens, holotanks and perhaps even hard copies of books. A good library is useful for both research and passing time in jump space.

Having a library on board a ship grants DM+1 on any EDU check made when training for new skills in jump space or other periods of extended inactivity.

Yeah yeah, I read that blurb. Still doesn't make it a good idea for ships tight on space.

"computer files"? Really? We have very few large rooms of tape drives remaining as in the 60s. Display screens can be in any wall. And from some stuff I've seen you could roll it up and plaster it against any wall you want. And that's with our tech today. Books will be relics, a few treasured items among a person's belongings. Kindle has shown the future of reading.

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:22 am
by AnotherDilbert
GamingGlen wrote:Yeah yeah, I read that blurb. Still doesn't make it a good idea for ships tight on space.
Call it a workshop for the scientists in the crew.

Computer files take no space, but even scientists need a place to work...

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:23 am
by Condottiere
You could call it a study, or the Study.

I would remove all candlesticks, daggers, lead piping, revolvers, ropes and spanners, though.

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:33 am
by Reynard
"So the Increased Size disadvantage (and the Early Prototype modifier) can also increase the number of crew needed. Requiring more power (Energy Inefficient disadvantage) would also require a larger power plant, which may also require a larger crew."

I like that. Next time I take a trip up to the Highport I'll have to take the tour of the prototype jump 1 ship they have at the shipyard museum. (and for the heck of it, might have to design it too.)

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:50 am
by Reynard
The idea of including the Library was discussed earlier on this thread where I considered what its function would be and

"Hmmm. Then again, it's not a traditional bookshelf library but a place for resources for the team to reference data as well as tools to collect information for analysis and storage. Could have presentation equipment such as holographic projectors the team can gather around and conference. Good compliment to research laboratories on a ship."

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:29 am
by steve98052
Jeraa wrote:
Reynard wrote:I'm not sure if there is a Disadvantage for engines needing more crew.
There is, at least indirectly. The number of crew needed depends on the size of the drive/plant. So the Increased Size disadvantage (and the Early Prototype modifier) can also increase the number of crew needed. Requiring more power (Energy Inefficient disadvantage) would also require a larger power plant, which may also require a larger crew. . . .
For small ships, aren't the engineering sections small enough that only one engineer were required. Even if so, maybe early prototypes require more specialization, so that each system requires at least one engineer.

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:29 pm
by Reynard
According to HG2e both commercial and military vessels need 1 engineer per 35 tons of drives BUT "Spacecraft in the hands of small-time traders or adventurers usually run with the barest minimum of crew, with personnel often fulfilling more than one role as situations demand." Yeah, they take chances.

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:27 pm
by Reynard
So far I've been concentrating on the very early designs for jump 1 ships. The time period can last decades to a few centuries before the advent of jump 2 at TL 11. Within that time TL 10 science and technology adds a few advances to spacecraft and starships. Naturally the development of 2g maneuver will have everyone happy with all that speed and time saving.

The military will rejoice at the resiliency of Crystaliron hulls while sensors take a boost. Add a pat on the back to the scientist that introduce the accuracy advantage with beam lasers which ties well with Point Defense Type I batteries. At this time the first concept of a spinal mount emerges with the railgun dawning the age of devastating capital ships.

The Mail Distribution Array makes efficient interstellar communication possible with purpose built postal service. With fewer large population worlds, the system would have ships more independent and robust compared to the later X-boat so they can cover sparse routes. It would still be attempting to service important route then having secondary means for reaching less populated area such as the Early Traders.

Security cutters and patrol vessels will benefit from the newly developed Shallow Penetration Suite for observing the interior of ships remotely. Troop transports acting as mobile interstellar security bases will benefit from the Training facility keeping soldiers in top condition between the stars.

I'm sure the spaceways will become gaudy billboards by commercial ventures when they realize the potential of the Holographic Hull.

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:16 pm
by Condottiere
Depending how you interpret ship design and primitive starship sequence, the smallest early prototype jump drive is either ten or fifteen tonnes, depending on whether the five tonne overhead is doubled in size or not.

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:42 pm
by AnotherDilbert
Condottiere wrote:Depending how you interpret ship design and primitive starship sequence, the smallest early prototype jump drive is either ten or fifteen tonnes, depending on whether the five tonne overhead is doubled in size or not.
The minimum basic size is 10 dT, an Early Prototype is doubled to 20 dT.

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:55 pm
by AnotherDilbert
Prototype TL8 Explorer

Double prototype J-1 drive, prototype Jump-1 software.
Double prototype M-1 drive.
Fuel for 6 jumps and 12 weeks, no wilderness refuelling.
4 staterooms (double occupancy), 3 dT cargo, Workshop
Crew: 8: 3 Bridge (pilot, astrogator, sensors), 3 Engineers (Jump, Man, Power/Life), Medic/Admin, open slot

Code: Select all

TL 8              Hull  80                                                    249,1    
Civilian 0                        4        
                                       Desired    ∆TL    Rat    #    dTon    Cost    Power
Hull                                      200                         200               40
Config            Standard                  1             1                    10    
Hull strength     Standard                  2             2                
Repair Drones                               1                   1       2       0
                                
JumpD             Protoype                  1     -1      1     2      20     180       20    Late Jump
ManœuvreD         Protoype                  1     -1      1     2       4      48       20
PowerP   (TL8)    Standard                                      1       6       3       60
    Emergency Power                         1                   1       1       0    
                            
Fuel, Jump                                  6                   6     120        
Fuel, Power                                12          12 w     1       6        
                                
Bridge                                      1                   1      10       1    
Comp              m/5                       2             5     1               0    
                                
Sensors           Basic                                         1            
                                
Staterooms                                50%             8     4      16       2    

Workshop                                    1                   1       6       1    

Cargo                                                                   3        
 
Fixed Mount                                
Missile           Standard                  1           TL7     4               3    
Laser Drill       Standard                  1           TL8     2               0        8
                              

Software                                                              
Jump-1            Prototype                                                     1            
                                
                             
Crew                     7                        
    Command              0                        
    Bridge               3                        
        Pilot                  1                    
        Astrogator             1                    
        Sensor & EW            1                    
    Engineer             3    
        Engineer               1,0
        Maintenance            0,2
    Service              1    
        Admin                  0,10
        Medic                  0,06
        Steward                0,02
    Gunner        
    Flight        
    Troops        

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:30 pm
by Reynard
I would think a realistic Disadvantage for software would be a negative DM considering the complexity of coding. On the same note, is there a reason we don't see software listed with Advantages or Disadvantages?

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:34 pm
by AnotherDilbert
Early Prototype Jump experiment

Early Prototype J-1 drive, Early Prototype Jump-1 software with fuel for 4 jumps.
Reaction 1 G drive with 6 h fuel.
Nuclear power plant with 12 weeks fuel.
8 staterooms, 3 dT cargo, Workshop
Crew: 8: 3 Bridge (pilot, astrogator, sensors), 3 Engineers, Medic/Admin, open slot

Code: Select all

TL 7              Hull  80                                                    352,2    
                                       Desired    ∆TL    Rat    #    dTon    Cost    Power
Hull                                      200                         200               40
Config            Standard                  1             1                    10    
Hull strength     Standard                  2             2                
Repair Drones                               1             1             2       0    
                                
JumpD             Early Prototype           1     -2      1     1      20     330       26    Late Jump, Energy Ineff
ReactionD         Standard                  1             1     1       4       1    
PowerP   (TL6)    Standard                                      1       9       4       72
    Emergency Power                         1                   1       1       0    
                                
Fuel, Jump        LHyd                      4                   4      80        
Reaction Fuel     60 turns                  6                   6      30        
Fuel, Power       Radioactives             12          12 w             3        
                                
Bridge                                      1                   1      10       1    
Comp              m/5                       2             5     1               0    
Sensors           None                            

Staterooms                               100%             8     8      32       4    

Workshop                                    1                   1       6       1    

Cargo                                                                   3        
                                
                                
Software                                                                        1    
                                
Jump-1            Early Prototype                                               1    
                                
                                
                                
Crew                     7                        
    Command              0                        
    Bridge               3                        
        Pilot                  1                    
        Astrogator             1                    
        Sensor & EW            1                    
    Engineer             3    
        Engineer               0,9
        Maintenance            0,2
    Service              1    
        Admin                  0,10
        Medic                  0,06
        Steward                0,01
    Gunner        
    Flight        
    Troops       

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:41 pm
by GamingGlen
"Crew: 8: 3 Bridge (pilot, astrogator, sensors), 3 Engineers (Jump, Man, Power/Life), Medic/Admin, open slot"

Hmm, open slot... the token red-shirt clad service/security dude, named "Guy"? The captain's "yeoman"? :wink:

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:42 pm
by AnotherDilbert
Reynard wrote:What would be the Disadvantage for prototype Jump 1 software? On the same note, is there a reason we don't see software listed with Advantages or Disadvantages?
Strictly by RAW we cannot prototype software.

Disadvantages might be Unreliable (wrong result 33%), Slow (takes 10 times the time), Bad Interface (especially trained operators only), Increased Bandwidth.

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:43 pm
by Reynard
Or the Captain's 'First mate'.

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:46 pm
by AnotherDilbert
GamingGlen wrote:"Crew: 8: 3 Bridge (pilot, astrogator, sensors), 3 Engineers (Jump, Man, Power/Life), Medic/Admin, open slot"

Hmm, open slot... the token red-shirt clad service/security dude, named "Guy"? The captain's "yeoman"? :wink:
I was thinking Crazy Scientist, Martinet Captain, Clueless Bureaucrat, Sightseeing Noble, or something interesting depending on who ran the program.

Re: Ships at the Dawn of Jump

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:49 pm
by GamingGlen
BTW, for a one-shot, good-for-a-con, scenario involving the first jump made by humans I had designed one early prototype, at least generally with HG1.
I was going to have a couple of the pre-gen characters desiring to sabotage the effort, for examples: a religious nutcase thinking the jump portal will open up Hell, another thinking it's a waste of money and one set back will have the government not fund the project any more.

I'm still waiting for my hard copy of HG2; seems like Alliance distribution still lists it as a pre-order. *sigh*