High Guard - Errors?

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DivineWrath
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby DivineWrath » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:12 pm

I got more done. Only 5 this time. It feels like its more work to get this stuff done.

ARMOURED CRUISER
Ghalalk-class
Price of jump drive should be 7507.500 MCr.
Price of P-Plant should be 6660.000 MCr.
Armored Bulkhead P-Plant should be 333 tons and 66.6 MCr.
Armored Bulkhead J-Drive should be 400 tons and 80 MCr.
Armored Bulkhead M-Plant should be 450 tons and 90 MCr.
I can't find a "Deployment Shuttle". Can't determine if its price is correct.
Armoury should be priced 4.25 MCr.
Uses Recreational Facilities used. Obsolete.
Standard Staterooms should be priced 205.5 MCr.
470.5 units of space unused.
Final price should be 30164.553 MCr (includes 10% discount).

PLANETOID MONITOR
Empress Troyhune
Craft heavy fighter x20 should be priced 769.2 MCr (my numbers).
If you are using the numbers in the book, then its ok.
Final price should be 16130.970 MCr (includes 10% discount).
...or not, as it might be unique, so then a 10% discount wouldn't apply. So then 17923.300 MCr.

STRIKE CRUISER
Arakoine-class
Triple Turret (sandcaster) x20 should be priced 35 MCr... this assumes you are mounting 3 sandcasters on a triple turret.
Nuclear Damper should be 90 MCr.
Heavy fighters should be priced 3846 MCr (my numbers).
Launch Tube and Recovery Deck should mention what ship size they are good for.
Final price should be 29075.715 MCr (includes 10% discount).

FRONTIER CRUISER
Azhanti-class
Price for armour should be 1800 MCr.
Triple turret (sandcaster) x130 only has 1 sandcaster (based upon price).
If it has 3 sandcasters, then it should be priced at 227.5 MCr.
Pinnace should be priced at 43.56 MCr (my number).
Light Fighter x80 should be priced at 727.200 MCr.
Docking Space (400 tons) x4 should be 1760 tons, not 1.760 tons. Someone put down a period instead of a comma.
There is no ship known as a fuel shuttle. It appears to be 400 tons and 90.207 MCr.
Final price should be 27185.164 MCr (includes 10% discount).

HEAVY CRUISER
Atlantic-class
Fusion power plant is incorrect. No rating is given. Says its Fusion TL 15, so price should be 8600 MCr.
Triple Turret (Sandcaster) x165 should be priced at 288.750 MCr.
Ship's Boat should be priced at 7.272 MCr.
This ship is 0.5 tons over the limit.
Final price should be 40174.102 MCr (includes 10% discount).
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby steve98052 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:50 pm

steve98052 wrote:A lot of ships get a class discount for building multiples of the same general design. That should never apply to planetoid ships, or at best only very rarely, with planetoids selected very carefully for nearly exact size and shape.
Condottiere wrote:The components would be standardized for the class, the issue might be that odd sized hulls would force ad hoc arrangements of equipment.

But essentially, for ordinary planetoids, you have twenty percent wastage calculated in, and most of the guts would be within the scooped out interior.
Maybe so. But for the scooped out interior to follow the same configuration closely enough to reasonably qualify for a class discount, the planetoids would have to be selected to have the same total size, and to be closely enough matched in shape to be scooped out the same way in each example. Alternatively, somewhat larger planetoids could be selected, with enough of the surface blasted away to reduce them to a size and shape that's compatible with a class design. Maybe that's more common than I imagined.
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby snrdg121408 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:28 am

Hello DivineWrath,

The specifications for the Deployment Shuttle is found in a 20 page PDF document that can be found on DriveThruRPG.com for $5.99 US.
DivineWrath wrote:I got more done. Only 5 this time. It feels like its more work to get this stuff done.

ARMOURED CRUISER
Ghalalk-class
Price of jump drive should be 7507.500 MCr.
Price of P-Plant should be 6660.000 MCr.
Armored Bulkhead P-Plant should be 333 tons and 66.6 MCr.
Armored Bulkhead J-Drive should be 400 tons and 80 MCr.
Armored Bulkhead M-Plant should be 450 tons and 90 MCr.
I can't find a "Deployment Shuttle". Can't determine if its price is correct.
Armoury should be priced 4.25 MCr.
Uses Recreational Facilities used. Obsolete.
Standard Staterooms should be priced 205.5 MCr.
470.5 units of space unused.
Final price should be 30164.553 MCr (includes 10% discount).

PLANETOID MONITOR
Empress Troyhune
Craft heavy fighter x20 should be priced 769.2 MCr (my numbers).
If you are using the numbers in the book, then its ok.
Final price should be 16130.970 MCr (includes 10% discount).
...or not, as it might be unique, so then a 10% discount wouldn't apply. So then 17923.300 MCr.

STRIKE CRUISER
Arakoine-class
Triple Turret (sandcaster) x20 should be priced 35 MCr... this assumes you are mounting 3 sandcasters on a triple turret.
Nuclear Damper should be 90 MCr.
Heavy fighters should be priced 3846 MCr (my numbers).
Launch Tube and Recovery Deck should mention what ship size they are good for.
Final price should be 29075.715 MCr (includes 10% discount).

FRONTIER CRUISER
Azhanti-class
Price for armour should be 1800 MCr.
Triple turret (sandcaster) x130 only has 1 sandcaster (based upon price).
If it has 3 sandcasters, then it should be priced at 227.5 MCr.
Pinnace should be priced at 43.56 MCr (my number).
Light Fighter x80 should be priced at 727.200 MCr.
Docking Space (400 tons) x4 should be 1760 tons, not 1.760 tons. Someone put down a period instead of a comma.
There is no ship known as a fuel shuttle. It appears to be 400 tons and 90.207 MCr.
Final price should be 27185.164 MCr (includes 10% discount).

HEAVY CRUISER
Atlantic-class
Fusion power plant is incorrect. No rating is given. Says its Fusion TL 15, so price should be 8600 MCr.
Triple Turret (Sandcaster) x165 should be priced at 288.750 MCr.
Ship's Boat should be priced at 7.272 MCr.
This ship is 0.5 tons over the limit.
Final price should be 40174.102 MCr (includes 10% discount).
snrdg121408 (aka Tom R)
DivineWrath
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby DivineWrath » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:01 pm

snrdg121408 wrote:The specifications for the Deployment Shuttle is found in a 20 page PDF document that can be found on DriveThruRPG.com for $5.99 US.
Well that is not very convenient. You would think that all ships being used in this book could be found in it. Its a book about making ships with space for designs of 13 smallcraft and 40 spaceships (some being bigger than 100,000 tons).
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:21 pm

Think of it as any 50 dT small craft that is built to fit a standard Imperial 50dT launch tube. It can carry Heavy Fighters, Troop Transports, Deployment Shuttles, and/or anything else you can come up with.
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby DivineWrath » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:24 am

Whew! Done. I can't promise that this is error free. I also didn't check stuff like power or hull points. My concerns were whether or not the tonnage and price was correct.

STRIKE CARRIER
Wind-class
"Triple turret (beam laser, long range) x200" should be priced 575 MCr.
"Dual turret (fusion gun, high yield) x10" should be priced 59 MCr.
"Single turret (particle beam, intense focus) x10" should be priced 52 MCr.
I don't think you should be multiplying the cost of turrets when it is the weapon that is advanced.
Cost of light fighters should be 727.2 MCr.
Not equiped with a fuel scoop. Why not? Most of the other big ships have one.
"Workshop 6" should be "Workshop x6".
Broad Spectrum EW should be 14 MCr.
Final price should be 45830.295 MCr (includes 10% discount).

FLEET CARRIER
Antiama-class
Triple turret (beam laser, long range) x160 should be priced 460.
I don't think you should be multiplying the cost of turrets when it is the weapon that is advanced.
Docking Space (50 tons) x300 should be 16500 tons and 4125 MCr.
Heavy fighter x300 should be priced 11538 MCr (My numbers).
Anti-Hijack/1 should be 6 MCr. Or it should be Anti-Hijack/2.
540 tons unused (after changes).
Final price should be 51053.220 MCr (includes 10% discount).

DREADNOUGHT
Kokirrak-class
Triple turret (beam laser, long range) x300 should be priced 862.5 MCr.
Single turret (particle beam, intense focus) x330 should be priced 1716 MCr.
I don't think you should be multiplying the cost of turrets when it is the weapon that is advanced.
Modular Cutter x4 should be 41.148 MCr.
Pinnace x4 should be 34.848 MCr.
Ship’s Boat x2 should be 14.544 MCr.
What, no fuel scoops for a ship of this size?
Command Bridge should be 1875 MCr.
Advanced Fire Control/2 should cost 15 MCr.
Final price should be 121942.296 MCr (includes 10% discount).

DREADNOUGHT
Plankwell-class
Bridge should be priced 1250 MCr.
Medium tractor beam bay (energy inneficient) x50 should be 5000 tons 9000 MCr.
Small missile bay x50 should be priced 600 MCr.
Triple turret (beam laser, long range) x100 should be priced 287.5 MCr.
Dual turret (fusion gun, high yield) x30 should be priced 147 MCr.
Single turret (particle beam, intense focus) x400 should be priced 2080 MCr.
Command Bridge (holographic controls) should be priced 1875 MCr.
Advanced Fire Control/2 should be priced 18 MCr.
1027 space unused.
Final price should be 105406.727 MCr (includes 10% discount).

DREADNOUGHT
Tigress-class
Jump Drive should be 50005 tons and priced 93759.375 MCr.
Bridge should be priced 3125 MCr, not 3.125 MCr (emphasis on the period).
Triple turret (beam laser, long range) x100 should be priced as 287 MCr.
Dual turret (fusion gun, high yield) x100 should be priced as 490 MCr.
Full Hangar (50 tons) x15 should be priced 300 MCr.
Heavy fighter x300 should be 11538 MCr (my numbers).
Command Bridge, holographic controls should be priced 4687.5 MCr.
1005 tons too big.
Final price should be 334617.404 MCr (includes 10% discount).
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby snrdg121408 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:13 am

Hello DivineWrath,

Thank you for your review of the ship designs that are part of HG 2e.

DivineWrath wrote:Whew! Done. I can't promise that this is error free. I also didn't check stuff like power or hull points. My concerns were whether or not the tonnage and price was correct.

STRIKE CARRIER
Wind-class
"Triple turret (beam laser, long range) x200" should be priced 575 MCr.
"Dual turret (fusion gun, high yield) x10" should be priced 59 MCr.
"Single turret (particle beam, intense focus) x10" should be priced 52 MCr.
I don't think you should be multiplying the cost of turrets when it is the weapon that is advanced.
Cost of light fighters should be 727.2 MCr.
Not equiped with a fuel scoop. Why not? Most of the other big ships have one.
"Workshop 6" should be "Workshop x6".
Broad Spectrum EW should be 14 MCr.
Final price should be 45830.295 MCr (includes 10% discount).

FLEET CARRIER
Antiama-class
Triple turret (beam laser, long range) x160 should be priced 460.
I don't think you should be multiplying the cost of turrets when it is the weapon that is advanced.
Docking Space (50 tons) x300 should be 16500 tons and 4125 MCr.
Heavy fighter x300 should be priced 11538 MCr (My numbers).
Anti-Hijack/1 should be 6 MCr. Or it should be Anti-Hijack/2.
540 tons unused (after changes).
Final price should be 51053.220 MCr (includes 10% discount).

DREADNOUGHT
Kokirrak-class
Triple turret (beam laser, long range) x300 should be priced 862.5 MCr.
Single turret (particle beam, intense focus) x330 should be priced 1716 MCr.
I don't think you should be multiplying the cost of turrets when it is the weapon that is advanced.
Modular Cutter x4 should be 41.148 MCr.
Pinnace x4 should be 34.848 MCr.
Ship’s Boat x2 should be 14.544 MCr.
What, no fuel scoops for a ship of this size?
Command Bridge should be 1875 MCr.
Advanced Fire Control/2 should cost 15 MCr.
Final price should be 121942.296 MCr (includes 10% discount).

DREADNOUGHT
Plankwell-class
Bridge should be priced 1250 MCr.
Medium tractor beam bay (energy inneficient) x50 should be 5000 tons 9000 MCr.
Small missile bay x50 should be priced 600 MCr.
Triple turret (beam laser, long range) x100 should be priced 287.5 MCr.
Dual turret (fusion gun, high yield) x30 should be priced 147 MCr.
Single turret (particle beam, intense focus) x400 should be priced 2080 MCr.
Command Bridge (holographic controls) should be priced 1875 MCr.
Advanced Fire Control/2 should be priced 18 MCr.
1027 space unused.
Final price should be 105406.727 MCr (includes 10% discount).

DREADNOUGHT
Tigress-class
Jump Drive should be 50005 tons and priced 93759.375 MCr.
Bridge should be priced 3125 MCr, not 3.125 MCr (emphasis on the period).
Triple turret (beam laser, long range) x100 should be priced as 287 MCr.
Dual turret (fusion gun, high yield) x100 should be priced as 490 MCr.
Full Hangar (50 tons) x15 should be priced 300 MCr.
Heavy fighter x300 should be 11538 MCr (my numbers).
Command Bridge, holographic controls should be priced 4687.5 MCr.
1005 tons too big.
Final price should be 334617.404 MCr (includes 10% discount).
snrdg121408 (aka Tom R)
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby AndrewW » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:39 am

Got to going over everything, to answer a few questions:
DivineWrath wrote:FLEET COURIER
You can select reduced tonnage 3 times?
Yes.
DivineWrath wrote:SURVEY SCOUT
No price was given for the extra module.
Because space for it is included, but no module is included with the ship. The ship owner is free to purchase whatever types of module(s) meet their needs.
DivineWrath wrote:FLEET ESCORT
What, fuel scoops but no fuel processors? It needs 2000 to cover its jump needs.
S9 Fighting Ships wrote: Ship is equipped with fuel scoops. Its fleet escort role allows it to dispense with fuel purification plants.
DivineWrath wrote:FRONTIER CRUISER
There is no ship known as a fuel shuttle. It appears to be 400 tons and 90.207 MCr.
There is, but it never made it into High Guard.

DivineWrath wrote:STRIKE CARRIER
Not equiped with a fuel scoop. Why not? Most of the other big ships have one.
Because it went missing from the stats in the PDF.
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby snrdg121408 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:29 pm

Hello all,

A bit more information from CT that may be helpful.
AndrewW wrote:Got to going over everything, to answer a few questions:
DivineWrath wrote:FLEET ESCORT
What, fuel scoops but no fuel processors? It needs 2000 to cover its jump needs.
S9 Fighting Ships wrote: Ship is equipped with fuel scoops. Its fleet escort role allows it to dispense with fuel purification plants.

There is, but it never made it into High Guard.
1. The P. F. Sloan-Class Fleet Escort has been featured in the following material that I have found in my source materials:

A. CT Supplement 9 Fighting Ships 1980 p. 18

I believe that the reason the fleet escort can dispense with fuel purification plants is based on CT LBB 2 Starships 2e 1977/1980 p. 6 Starship Malfunctions Second paragraph Third sentence:

"Military and quasi-military starships often use unrefined fuel because it is more available, and because their drives are specially built to use it."

Apparently only the fleet escort's jump drive/power plant is capable of handling unrefined fuel. I have not found any indication that the specially built drive/power plant alters the odds of having a drive/power plant failure or a misjump using unrefined fuel or their cost and size.

B. Challenge 25 1986/JTAS 25 1986 pp. 18-20 write-up, 29-31 Deck plans
C. The Spinward Marches Campaign, pp. 32-39. The 154th Battle Rider Squadron.

2. Frontier Cruiser fuel shuttles:

The missing fuel shuttle carried by the frontier cruiser per CT Supplement 5 Lighting Class Cruisers 1980 p. 5 Small Craft is 400-tons and the class carries four of them. The frontier cruiser is equipped with ventral docking stations capable of carrying hulls between 100 and 400 tons, including carriage during jump.
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby RIPBriggs » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:39 am

I have a question about the Lab Ship (It has a docking space/ring for a Pinnace) - Surely a 'normal' Pinnace would never fit in there? (And the little ship on the plan looks more like a Launch/Life Boat).
(It's just a small thing, but I've been planning to post some questions about deckplans and that stood out to me when I saw it.)


And what's a Fresher, or a Holotank? (Only joking; I know what a Fresher is, but I notice it's not explained anywhere - but neither is the Holotank, in the Library). Given the context of the words around it, I might be forgiven for thinking a Fresher is a fridge... "I'm going to see if there's anything worth eating in the fresher..." lol.


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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby AndrewW » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:28 am

RIPBriggs wrote:I have a question about the Lab Ship (It has a docking space/ring for a Pinnace) - Surely a 'normal' Pinnace would never fit in there? (And the little ship on the plan looks more like a Launch/Life Boat).
(It's just a small thing, but I've been planning to post some questions about deckplans and that stood out to me when I saw it.)
Sure it does, it's the new folding kind. Can't say what they where thinking though, I didn't have anything to do with the laboratory ship deck plans (other then to complain about them) though, so couldn't say what they where thinking.
RIPBriggs wrote:And what's a Fresher, or a Holotank? (Only joking; I know what a Fresher is, but I notice it's not explained anywhere - but neither is the Holotank, in the Library).
A holotank is a 3D holographic display, looks like an aquarium.
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby RIPBriggs » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:52 pm

AndrewW wrote:
RIPBriggs wrote:I have a question about the Lab Ship (It has a docking space/ring for a Pinnace) - Surely a 'normal' Pinnace would never fit in there? (And the little ship on the plan looks more like a Launch/Life Boat).
(It's just a small thing, but I've been planning to post some questions about deckplans and that stood out to me when I saw it.)
Sure it does, it's the new folding kind. Can't say what they where thinking though, I didn't have anything to do with the laboratory ship deck plans (other then to complain about them) though, so couldn't say what they where thinking.
Fair play :) - I didn't even want to begin counting the squares to estimate the circumference compared to a Pinnace's wings...

While I'm here though... Additional airlocks are stated as requiring a minimum of 2dton (which would traditionally take up 4 squares on a deckplan) - but most deckplans have a half, or even a quarter of that assigned. I know rules are there to be bent or ignored at our own whims, I'm only asking in case it was a misprint, or do these restrictions only apply to additional ones?
AndrewW wrote:
RIPBriggs wrote:And what's a Fresher, or a Holotank? (Only joking; I know what a Fresher is, but I notice it's not explained anywhere - but neither is the Holotank, in the Library).
A holotank is a 3D holographic display, looks like an aquarium.
Tyvm :)

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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby AndrewW » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:59 pm

RIPBriggs wrote:While I'm here though... Additional airlocks are stated as requiring a minimum of 2dton (which would traditionally take up 4 squares on a deckplan) - but most deckplans have a half, or even a quarter of that assigned. I know rules are there to be bent or ignored at our own whims, I'm only asking in case it was a misprint, or do these restrictions only apply to additional ones?
Those are just for airlocks added after the free ones.
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby RIPBriggs » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:04 pm

AndrewW wrote:
RIPBriggs wrote:While I'm here though... Additional airlocks are stated as requiring a minimum of 2dton (which would traditionally take up 4 squares on a deckplan) - but most deckplans have a half, or even a quarter of that assigned. I know rules are there to be bent or ignored at our own whims, I'm only asking in case it was a misprint, or do these restrictions only apply to additional ones?
Those are just for airlocks added after the free ones.
Thank you for the clarification.
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby Jeraa » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:13 pm

Just like with staterooms, it is possible that not all of the space needs to be used for the actual room itself. Some of the tonnage dedicated to staterooms can be used for corridors and similar spaces. Likewise, the tonnage for the airlock could also have some other uses, like the section of corridor connecting to the airlock, or to miscellaneous components large enough to be necessary to include in the tonnage, but not necessarily large enough to show up on the actual deckplan.

And deckplans are allowed a 10% variance on actual size. So a 100 ton ship (usually 200 squares), if you counted up all of the deckplan squares, could be anywhere from 180 to 220 squares total and still be legal.
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby EldritchFire » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:14 pm

DivineWrath wrote:Here is half a dozen ships I've looked over. I tried to do my best to double check my results. I'll do more later.

Light Fighter
No price was given for weapon mount or weapon. Should be 1 MCr for the weapon, and 0.1 MCr for the fixed mount.
Final price should be MCr 9.09

I noticed a few discrepancies in the light fighter.
  • The m-drive is listed as 2dT and costing MCr4. However, it should only be 0.6dT (6% of 10dT) and cost MCr1.2.
  • It omits the power requirement for the pulse laser (3). thankfully, the 15 power provided by the power plant still covers this addition.
That, along with the missing cost for the pulse laser (MCr1.1), brings the total cost to MCr8.1.

Of course, with the 1.4dT saved from the corrected space of the m-drive, you could even make it a bit cheaper by using titanium steel armour instead: 0.50dT, with a cost of MCr.03. Half the cost, twice the weight. Total cost: MCr8.07. That would give 3.4dT cargo space. Still a lot for a short-ranged fighter!
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby DivineWrath » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:47 am

I'm wondering, how open is High Guard to edits and revision? Was there a beta I missed?

I still think that this book can be further improved. I'm wondering if I can make any suggestions that would help.
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby AndrewW » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:33 am

DivineWrath wrote:I'm wondering, how open is High Guard to edits and revision? Was there a beta I missed?
Yes, High Guard was part of the Traveller 2nd edition playtesting.
DivineWrath wrote:I still think that this book can be further improved. I'm wondering if I can make any suggestions that would help.
Suggestions can always be made, no particular guarantees on any revisions though.
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby steve98052 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:08 pm

AndrewW wrote:Suggestions can always be made, no particular guarantees on any revisions though.
I would hope that errors that slipped through the playtest go onto the errata page, and that they're corrected in the next printing or downloadable version.

If I were overseeing the errata page, I'd partition it into errors that affect the meaning of the text and mere copy edits. The former would be useful to anyone, but the latter would only really matter to people who were contributing to the errata page, so that they don't have to bother pointing out known typos.

This all assumes that there is an errata page. I haven't gone looking for one, but I sure hope there is one.
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Re: High Guard - Errors?

Postby snrdg121408 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:00 pm

Hello steve98052,
steve98052 wrote:
AndrewW wrote:Suggestions can always be made, no particular guarantees on any revisions though.
I would hope that errors that slipped through the playtest go onto the errata page, and that they're corrected in the next printing or downloadable version.

If I were overseeing the errata page, I'd partition it into errors that affect the meaning of the text and mere copy edits. The former would be useful to anyone, but the latter would only really matter to people who were contributing to the errata page, so that they don't have to bother pointing out known typos.

This all assumes that there is an errata page. I haven't gone looking for one, but I sure hope there is one.
As far as I know there are a couple of forum topics covering HG 2e possible errata. One of Donald McKinney's many hats, who past away in 2015, was the compiler and composer of consolidated errata for CT, MT, TNE, and T4. I know he was working on T5 and I believe he was working on T20 and MgT but had not gotten around to putting material into a PDF. GURPS Traveller had errata but with them not renewing the license I do not know where to find any unless one printed out the files.

I'm hoping that at some point there will be a free downloadable consolidated errata document linked to each books product page.
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