2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Solomani666
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2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby Solomani666 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:38 pm

From what I gather so far, vehicle and personal combat are on the same scale with DD weapons being the bridge between the two.

With a 1:10 scale ratio, does this mean that a 3D damage laser pistol can now damage a free trader?
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:14 pm

The common Free Trader has Armour 2, so no.

A maximum hit might be 3D + Effect = 18 + 5 = 23 damage or 2 damage on the spacecraft scale - 2 Armour = 0 spacecraft damage.

An unarmoured spacecraft can be damaged by most weapons. With 80 Hull points and up, they can take a few hits without problem.
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby wbnc » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:16 pm

Solomani666 wrote:From what I gather so far, vehicle and personal combat are on the same scale with DD weapons being the bridge between the two.

With a 1:10 scale ratio, does this mean that a 3D damage laser pistol can now damage a free trader?
Armor on a Free trader will soak 2 points of starship damage, a TL-11 laser pistol can do 2.1 points of starship damage. a TL-11 laser rifle can do 3.3 points of starship damage... Which means on a really good shot a laser rifle can get the attention of a Free Trader. The shooter better hope the ship hasn't purchased a weapon for the starship though. Because one hit from a starships pulse laser is likely to send a man-sized target to the great beyond. Minimal damage from a pulse laser will just about vaporize an unarmored human.
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby allanimal » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:33 pm

Free traders with 2 armor are safe from my musket, but most of the military ships have zero armor... Eventually I can destroy a cruiser with my primitive arms!
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby Solomani666 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:06 pm

Empress Marava Class has an armour rating of 0
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Solomani666
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby Solomani666 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:09 pm

allanimal wrote:Free traders with 2 armor are safe from my musket, but most of the military ships have zero armor... Eventually I can destroy a cruiser with my primitive arms!
I would limit ship damage by small arms fire to energy and explosive weapons only and eliminate critical hits.
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby Solomani666 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:13 pm

This should make Star Wars fans happy.

I've always wondered why they even bother to fire at a starship taking off.
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby Solomani666 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:15 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:The common Free Trader has Armour 2, so no.

A maximum hit might be 3D + Effect = 18 + 5 = 23 damage or 2 damage on the spacecraft scale - 2 Armour = 0 spacecraft damage.

An unarmoured spacecraft can be damaged by most weapons. With 80 Hull points and up, they can take a few hits without problem.
Empress Marava Class has an armour rating of 0
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AnotherDilbert
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:17 pm

Solomani666 wrote:Empress Marava Class has an armour rating of 0
Armour rating 0 is traditionally about 33 mm RHA (MT). As far as I understand an anti-materiel rifle should penetrate that, but it should stop a regular rifle round. I suspect an AP round from an auto rifle would have a good chance to penetrate?

So, a spacecraft should be relatively safe from shrapnel and rifle fire, but anything heavier and anything armour piercing should be able to do damage.

You could give spacecraft a courtesy Armour 1 rating against rifles.
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby Condottiere » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:04 pm

The Gionetti and Arakoine have zero armour, so I presume you could launch a wave of armed space marines against them.
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby Solomani666 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Given these rules, how long do you think a ship would last given the rigors of space travel?

"Mayday! Mayday! Our ship was hit by a tiny screw in orbit!"
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby Condottiere » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:24 pm

No one ever appreciates fast screws.
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:25 pm

The ISS seems to be doing fine with ~2-3 mm of aluminium.
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby GamingGlen » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:30 pm

allanimal wrote:Free traders with 2 armor are safe from my musket, but most of the military ships have zero armor... Eventually I can destroy a cruiser with my primitive arms!
So the Civilization computer game has been right all this time in that a spearman can sink a battleship?
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby GamingGlen » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:33 pm

Condottiere wrote:The Gionetti and Arakoine have zero armour, so I presume you could launch a wave of armed space marines against them.
I've often wondered who makes up these armorless warships in the game, especially for the "Fighting Ships" supplements. Are the ship designers disguised Hivers trying to manipulate our way of thinking to have armorless real ships for the eventual invasion of Earth?
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby GamingGlen » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:38 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:The ISS seems to be doing fine with ~2-3 mm of aluminium.
It won't when the super-secret North Korean stealth spacecraft sends its space marines to take over the ISS.


(Yes, I'm feeling quite silly today) :D
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:40 pm

This supplement contains starship designs, including statistics, illustrations, and background material for use in the Traveller universe. The original ship specifications and booklet concept were designed by Tim Brown. Additional development by Frank Chadwick and Marc W. Miller.
CT Fighting Ships, p2.
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby Condottiere » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:41 pm

To be fair, the original strike cruiser is supposed to have a dispersed structure, so no armour was possible.

The light cruiser was supposedly five across the board.
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby haveahappy » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:20 am

I'm not sure I understand the "problem" (perhaps "thought experiment" is a better term?).

Should a sidearm do no damage whatsoever to a starship?

First of all, you're meant to round down unless otherwise stated. That's on page 5, so no, a laser pistol cannot damage a free trader with armour 2.

Let's say I fire at a ship that is UNARMOURED.... well.... it's unarmoured? Imagine shooting any unarmoured vehicle. Most conventional weaponry is going to have at least a chance to punch through. And if I can punch thought the unarmoured hull, I can score a critical hit on some vital system, like puncturing a fuel tank, or hitting the engine.

Guns work by sending a small projectile of energy or metal or super heated plasma at a very high velocity..... they hurt people easily enough so I don't see why they shouldn't be able to damage a ship.

As for the empress marava class - it's a trading vessel..... You'd quite rightly do 2 points of damage and critically hit some ship system. If you donned vac-suits, opened up your air-lock and started firing a gauss rifle at it you'd probably cut it to ribbons. If the Marava class's twin double turrets don't vaporise you first....
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Re: 2.0 - So Now A Laser Pistol Can Damage A Starship?

Postby GarethL » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:25 am

Could this be fixed by saying that a starship with '0' armour actually has 0.5 armour - it rounds to zero on starship scale, but on personal scale it would provide a (minimal) 5 protection - enough to knock a couple of personal weapons down to 0 - 1 damage at most?

Even starships with 0 armour have 500 rad protection - so they should at least get something.

That said, this isn't going to come up much in practice,

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