TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

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alex_greene
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TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby alex_greene » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:30 pm

Page 70 has a new high tech ship's option, Collectors (TL 14).

"These are accumulators, sweeping up exotic particles captured by a canopy and removing the need to carry separate fuel for the jump drive ... It takes a week of normal space travel to fully charge an accumulator, and accumulators will not work at all in jump space, in an atmosphere or on a ship expending thrust."

So basically, the ship arrives, ramps up the thrust to build up the speed, then cuts the drive and zips off into the cosmos for a week on a totally ballistic trajectory collecting solar wind particles enough to fuel the Jump.

No need to go wilderness refuelling; the ship just sort of orbits or drifts between the planets, and everybody shuttles down to the planet in the ship's boats.

What do you think?
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby Spartan159 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:03 am

Annic Nova. from classical Traveller. It can just sit there a week. How long to deploy and recover is a valid question too.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby fusor » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:03 am

alex_greene wrote:Page 70 has a new high tech ship's option, Collectors (TL 14).

"These are accumulators, sweeping up exotic particles captured by a canopy and removing the need to carry separate fuel for the jump drive ... It takes a week of normal space travel to fully charge an accumulator, and accumulators will not work at all in jump space, in an atmosphere or on a ship expending thrust."

So basically, the ship arrives, ramps up the thrust to build up the speed, then cuts the drive and zips off into the cosmos for a week on a totally ballistic trajectory collecting solar wind particles enough to fuel the Jump.

No need to go wilderness refuelling; the ship just sort of orbits or drifts between the planets, and everybody shuttles down to the planet in the ship's boats.

What do you think?
So ships don't need hydrogen for jump drives now? What are these "exotic particles" supposed to be?

Clearly this isn't a 3I thing since at TL14 ships would have them installed and anything that TL or higher wouldn't need jump fuel.

Now you can travel for a week from the planet in normal space, then jump, then travel to your destination in normal space for a week and you're ready to jump again as soon as you leave there?
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby AndrewW » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:07 am

fusor wrote:Clearly this isn't a 3I thing since at TL14 ships would have them installed and anything that TL or higher wouldn't need jump fuel.
Correct, not intended for the Third Imperium setting. The only ship using it is the Annic Nova, and that was needed in order to do the ship in the new version.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby fusor » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:12 am

AndrewW wrote:Correct, not intended for the Third Imperium setting. The only ship using it is the Annic Nova, and that was needed in order to do the ship in the new version.
Are these non-3I technologies clearly defined as such in High Guard?
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby Spartan159 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:26 am

Collectors *are* in Traveller now, T5 has them, although I think there they are TL F, I'd have to find them again.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby fusor » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:38 am

Spartan159 wrote:Collectors *are* in Traveller now, T5 has them, although I think there they are TL F, I'd have to find them again.
Then we really need to know what is assumed to be present in the 3I setting as opposed to what's just there for any scifi setting made using Traveller. I know I'm getting kinda fed up of this ongoing ambiguity and people just picking and choosing what they think is in canon (it's ok for their own games, but what is in the official setting? Nobody seems to have a clue). And what T5 and MGT are clearly divergent on several things so whether or not something is in T5 doesn't really matter here.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby alex_greene » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:39 am

If collectors are in Annic Nova, then that means they can be reverse engineered to other ships in the official Third Imperium.

About the only restriction I can see here specific to the 3I is on page 29, letting you know that 3I capital ships can only have one spinal weapon installed.

"The ship design rules covered in previous chapters cover a broad range of technologies, up to around TL15. While technology beyond this is rare in the Third Imperium, it certainly exists and in other universes it may be common to the extent of ubiquity. This chapter introduces a range of new technologies that can be used as part of the design process to create some truly awesome ships." [p. 66]

"A five-thousand-year old scout ship from the dawn of the First Imperium might only be worth a few thousand Credits in scrap, but it belongs in a museum. The vacuum of space preserves what it takes." [p. 80]

Nope. No specifications as to what is, and what is not, 3I canon.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby Belisknar » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:40 am

fusor wrote:
AndrewW wrote:Correct, not intended for the Third Imperium setting. The only ship using it is the Annic Nova, and that was needed in order to do the ship in the new version.
Are these non-3I technologies clearly defined as such in High Guard?
Yes, they are listed in the 'High Technology' Chapter, which contains primarily technology which is considdered not from 3i.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby Spartan159 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:47 am

Belisknar wrote:
fusor wrote:
AndrewW wrote:Correct, not intended for the Third Imperium setting. The only ship using it is the Annic Nova, and that was needed in order to do the ship in the new version.
Are these non-3I technologies clearly defined as such in High Guard?
Yes, they are listed in the 'High Technology' Chapter, which contains primarily technology which is considdered not from 3i.
Except for the fact that Tachyonic weapons are definitively not part of the 3I, while Fusion Guns and Meson Bays and Tractor/Repulsor bays are.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby AndrewW » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:55 am

Spartan159 wrote:Collectors *are* in Traveller now, T5 has them, although I think there they are TL F, I'd have to find them again.
That's where they came from.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby AndrewW » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:56 am

Spartan159 wrote:Except for the fact that Tachyonic weapons are definitively not part of the 3I, while Fusion Guns and Meson Bays and Tractor/Repulsor bays are.
Fusion Gun turrets, particle beam turrets and Meson Bays used to be, according to one of those directive from above things they no longer are.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby Reynard » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:22 am

"So ships don't need hydrogen for jump drives now? What are these "exotic particles" supposed to be? "

The exotic particles have been mentioned in other editions of Traveller. These particles are held in suspension by the hydrogen bubble. I need to read the collector rules again but I'm assuming the collector system is a higher TL and not often used because of some disadvantages. The original Annic Nova was a highly unusual ship existing in the 3I universe yet still unique as an alternate technology.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby fusor » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:32 am

AndrewW wrote:
Spartan159 wrote:Except for the fact that Tachyonic weapons are definitively not part of the 3I, while Fusion Guns and Meson Bays and Tractor/Repulsor bays are.
Fusion Gun turrets, particle beam turrets and Meson Bays used to be, according to one of those directive from above things they no longer are.
Oh ffs. It's hard enough keeping track of what's what in the 3I without people randomly pulling things out that have been in the game for ages - or suddenly adding things - without telling anyone or without any explanation (and being so vague about who said this and why doesn't help either). We really don't need this crap.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby fusor » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:34 am

alex_greene wrote:If collectors are in Annic Nova, then that means they can be reverse engineered to other ships in the official Third Imperium.
And yet, that hasn't happened. And if it had, then every high tech ship would have them and jump fuel wouldn't be a worry anymore.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby -Daniel- » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:48 am

fusor wrote: Oh ffs. It's hard enough keeping track of what's what in the 3I without people randomly pulling things out that have been in the game for ages - ....
It sounds like what you need to do is accept you can't run a pure 3I official game. Your frustration and anger just is counter productive to having fun. Use the Traveller stuff you have and run a game that is yours. Add in or ignore what you want to and enjoy the process rather than rage on and on about how wrong everything is. Just a thought. :D
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby fusor » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:17 am

-Daniel- wrote:
fusor wrote: Oh ffs. It's hard enough keeping track of what's what in the 3I without people randomly pulling things out that have been in the game for ages - ....
It sounds like what you need to do is accept you can't run a pure 3I official game. Your frustration and anger just is counter productive to having fun. Use the Traveller stuff you have and run a game that is yours. Add in or ignore what you want to and enjoy the process rather than rage on and on about how wrong everything is. Just a thought. :D
How does that help anyone though? The point is that there's supposed to be an official setting - why bother presenting it at all if the expectation is that everyone is just going to run their own thing instead? The goalposts keep changing on the damn thing all the time, with every edition or new book (especially with the nonsense around the changes are in that High Guard that are apparently canonical). Even if one doesn't even want to run a "pure 3I game", it still would be nice to know what the damn baseline to work from is! Bloody hell, if TV shows can have a fixed canon then why the heck can't a roleplaying game manage it?

It's not just "oh, do what you like", or "sure, this is vague but it's supposed to be" - that's bullshit and it's just lazy. Let's have some hard statements on what is and isn't in the 3I please, so that people know what the hell it even is or is supposed to be. Present the other stuff as clear alternatives, by all means, but I think we need to know exactly what is and isn't in the 3I. This really isn't rocket science.

And since AndrewW seems to be in the know about such things, maybe he can actually tell us in one place what is now "official", who said it was, and why they decided that instead of dropping cryptic hints about it in many threads only if someone actually asks about an affected topic specifically.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby Nerhesi » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:44 am

To help ease your frustration or disappointment Fusor, below you will find some decisions/directions we worked with during our design of HG2:

Changes to certain weapon availability as either "turrets" or "bays" or "spinal" only. This applies to Fusion, Plasma, Particle & Meson weapons. Aligned to T5.
Changes to collector availability - granted in HG2 it is in the "high/alternate technology chapter" - which generally means it is not 3I standard - granted it MAY appear (e.g. Annic Nova). Aligned to T5 (mostly)
Changes to weapon ranges for small-craft weaponry, also known as Firm Points. Aligned to T5.
Changes to M-drives reaching up to 9G, for ALL ships. This has been confirmed as 3I Cannon both in T5 and on the CoTI forums (and apparently also cannon since Fire, Fusion, Steel/TNE?) - granted the impact of this is relatively minor in comparison to the above three. Aligned to T5.

This post is no way intended to indicate that this was a good or not-so-good move. Just informing you of the decisions/directions we worked with :)
Last edited by Nerhesi on Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby fusor » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:49 am

Nerhesi wrote:This post is no way intended to indicate that this was a good or not-so-good move. Just informing you of the decisions/directions we worked with :)
Thanks, that's something at least.

Though I'm kinda starting to wonder what they're playing at with MGT and T5. T5 has a lot of issues (and still is undergoing significant editing) and yet MGT has to adhere to it even though those may not be finalised? I don't really get what the relationship between them is supposed to be given that MGT went more its own way previously.
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Re: TL 14 Collectors In High Guard

Postby -Daniel- » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:56 am

fusor wrote: Bloody hell, if TV shows can have a fixed canon then why the heck can't a roleplaying game manage it?
Simple, the TV show does not have to somehow balance seven or eight different shows from seven or eight different writing teams, being produced by several different production companies using seven or eight different goals. And when they do, the same kinds of inconsistent backgrounds and "facts" begin to show up. Just look at the patchwork Star Trek for example has to deal with.

Traveller has been produced by how many different publishers? How many different game systems? How many different editions? Each had their own inner circle that pushed their own vision. So when some fans attempt to reconcile them all they fail. Why is this such a shock to you? You seem to be looking for something I believe you will never find in Traveller.

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