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Space Stations

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:46 pm
by allanimal
I've just started looking at the space station design rules.
For the most part, so far at least, not big differences from ships.

I did notice the armour table is slightly different. On ships, molecular bonded armour has a max of TL+4, but on space stations, it is only TL.

Actually, there are very few differences I am noticing right off. Seems like it is using a lot of pages to repeat mostly the same stuff.
Or am I missing something?

Main differences I'm seeing:
* Manoeuvre Drive size & cost
* Bridge sizes table
* The cost of some, but not all, Core computers (is the one that is the same price an error?)
* Crew (no pilot, astrogator, steward, etc, but most [all?] others are the same)
* Low Berth costs & power. (error?)
* Recommended common area space.
* Space Station Options

Of these, only the space station options & the bridge table are a major difference from ship design. It seems like a lot of space could have been saved by combining all the repeated space station tables, text & sidebars with the respective ship material, noting the minor differences as they show up.
There's even a sidebar on p.60 about it:
ships and space station can be viewed as interchangeable. ...
Fundamentally, a space station is a ship that lacks any real motive system. ... that is the only real difference between a space station and a ship.
Maybe the 9 pages devoted to space stations that are essentially redundant can be reduced to 1-2, plus the 4 pages of new space station options, freeing up 6-7 pages for other great stuff.

Again, or am I missing something. I admit I haven't read and compared it all in detail with the ship design, but most does seem redundant...

Re: Space Stations

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:23 pm
by alex_greene
The redundancy is so that you can concentrate on space station design using the rules in that one chapter. No flitting about from place to place. Look at the 1e Vehicle Handbook. That was a nightmare.

Re: Space Stations

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:21 pm
by -Daniel-
alex_greene wrote:The redundancy is so that you can concentrate on space station design using the rules in that one chapter. No flitting about from place to place. Look at the 1e Vehicle Handbook. That was a nightmare.
I happen to appreciate this. It does make it easier for sure. :D

Re: Space Stations

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:24 am
by dmccoy1693
Yea, I've already designed two space stations . At one point, I had to stop (and go to the day job :( ) and came back to it. I accidentally turned to the ship rules and figured out why a few things didn't make sense. Finally I figured out I was in the wrong section and everything was alright again.

Had they been combined, I'd probably have used a wrong table a half dozen times by that point and it would have taken me longer to realize (if ever) that I had.

Re: Space Stations

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:49 am
by allanimal
alex_greene wrote:The redundancy is so that you can concentrate on space station design using the rules in that one chapter. No flitting about from place to place.
I don't understand how having the rules in the same place means flitting about.

For example: <some system> costs x per ton and takes y tons. On a space station, however that's x' credits per ton and y' tons due to <fluff text explaining why space stations are different>

My opinion is that minor changes to something otherwise the same may not make it into the other section.
Case in point, the max armor of molecularly bonded. It was changed for ships (the last beta document I have, it was max TL, now TL+4), but not stations. Was that intentional or an oversight? There is not any "stations are different" text about armor, so I assume it is an oversight.

A couple other people have said they prefer it separate. Ok, maybe I'm the weird one that would like similar things together (I thought everyone was happy when fighters and capital ships got the same design rules, so I don't see why the same shouldn't be the case for stations....), but let's not let it overshadow the fact that there are some things in the stations rules that look like they may be errors, as I pointed out in my first post.

Are they, or are they just cases of "stations are different" that have no explanation?

Re: Space Stations

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:50 am
by AnotherDilbert
allanimal wrote:* Manoeuvre Drive size & cost
* The cost of some, but not all, Core computers (is the one that is the same price an error?)
* Low Berth costs & power. (error?)
I would call that known errors, where the Station chapter is not updated with changes. (The Low Berth costs kCr 50 in both chapters, where is the problem?)
allanimal wrote:* Bridge sizes table
* Crew (no pilot, astrogator, steward, etc, but most [all?] others are the same)
* Recommended common area space.
* Space Station Options
The differences makes sense to me, and are probably intentional.

Re: Space Stations

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:31 pm
by allanimal
AnotherDilbert wrote:(The Low Berth costs kCr 50 in both chapters, where is the problem?)
There is no power listed for space stations.
allanimal wrote:* Bridge sizes table
* Crew (no pilot, astrogator, steward, etc, but most [all?] others are the same)
* Recommended common area space.
* Space Station Options
The differences makes sense to me, and are probably intentional.[/quote]

Agreed, these are legitimate differences. it may have not been clear from my OP, but I don't see these as errors, just some of the minor differences.

Re: Space Stations

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:03 pm
by Belisknar
dmccoy1693 wrote:Yea, I've already designed two space stations . At one point, I had to stop (and go to the day job :( ) and came back to it. I accidentally turned to the ship rules and figured out why a few things didn't make sense. Finally I figured out I was in the wrong section and everything was alright again.

Had they been combined, I'd probably have used a wrong table a half dozen times by that point and it would have taken me longer to realize (if ever) that I had.
How would you use the wrong tables? It would be one table for each thing listing what you need to do for whatever you are building, Likely with a seperator for, ship or station. If this had been combined in the first place you'd probably not have made any mistakes in the first place since you wouldn't have been in the wrong section.

Re: Space Stations

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:30 pm
by dmccoy1693
Belisknar wrote:How would you use the wrong tables? It would be one table for each thing listing what you need to do for whatever you are building, Likely with a seperator for, ship or station. If this had been combined in the first place you'd probably not have made any mistakes in the first place since you wouldn't have been in the wrong section.
My wife asks me how I "screw up something so basic" all the time. It happens. It just happens.

Re: Space Stations

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:17 pm
by -Daniel-
dmccoy1693 wrote: My wife asks me how I "screw up something so basic" all the time. It happens. It just happens.
My wife has stopped asking me that. She just rolls her eyes and/or shakes her head. :mrgreen:

On topic, I built my first space station from the 2e book last night. I ended up deleting it because I got silly, but I do like how the system works. :D