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1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:00 pm
by DickNervous
Since I participated in the beta, I knew that the ship designs were changing drastically. And I knew that there was no way that all the ships from 1e could be represented in the new High Guard. After all there are details of ships in Book 3 - Scout, Book 6 - Scoundrel, all of the Alien modules, Traders & Gunboats, Fighting Ships, Merchants & Cruisers, and I am sure others that I haven't mentioned. (Actually makes me wonder just how many ship designs were published for 1e....). Anyway, back on track. And to be honest, I was pleasantly surprised at just how many ships are detailed in the new High Guard book.

Unfortunately, several of the ships that my players currently own are not in there. So last night I took one, the 400t Armed Fast Smuggler (Traders and Gunboats, pgs 60-61) , and worked up a 2e version of the standard design with the upgraded weapons my players put in. Even with the 2 particle beam turrets, which now require a barbette, the new ship comes in about Mcr34 cheaper and with 30t extra space. So the first question I have for people is, does that sound right? (I did it by hand which is why I am not posting anything...)

The second question is, has anyone worked up some kind of system for converting ships? Even if it is just rough estimates?

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:10 am
by SSWarlock
I don't have questions to your answers but I wanted to ask you for the reasoning behind your comment of "Even with the 2 particle beam turrets, which now require a barbette..." I'm confused by this because page 68 of High Guard 2e explicitly lists particle beams as turret weapons at TL12 (2nd line in the Turret Weapons chart).

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:03 am
by DickNervous
SSWarlock wrote:I don't have questions to your answers but I wanted to ask you for the reasoning behind your comment of "Even with the 2 particle beam turrets, which now require a barbette..." I'm confused by this because page 68 of High Guard 2e explicitly lists particle beams as turret weapons at TL12 (2nd line in the Turret Weapons chart).
This is what happens when you try to "build" a ship at 1am... I missed that :oops:

I really need to dig into the specs and see what happens when I build a few ships to get a better feel for it. I may be making a bigger deal out of the differences than necessary.

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:51 pm
by AnotherDilbert
DickNervous wrote:The ships that have been re-done aren't the ones I am concerned about. It's the other one, but I will be honest that I haven't looked to deeply yet. I know that "Hull" and "Structure" will need to be converted to "Hull Points", and that should be easy. It's the way Power is used that I need to look at since in 1e you didn't have that. I'm sure I will work it out, just going to take some time. :)
Just assume you have reasonable power, covering all basic systems and the bigger of M-Drive and J-Drive.

Lack of power comes if you mount oversized weapons or from battle damage.

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:37 pm
by DickNervous
I looked at another ship design (440t Gazelle Close Escort) last night and the new version was actually very different from 1e.

In 1e it has Jump-4, Thrust-4, 176t of fuel (4 weeks, J4), 8 staterooms, and 15t cargo space.
In 2e it has Jump-5, Thrust-6, 128t of fuel (8 weeks, J3), 11 staterooms, and 33.68t cargo. In order to do J4/J5 it needs drop tanks (J4 if it takes them with it, J5 if it leaves them behind). Those are some considerable differences.

But for now I think I will just use the 1e ships "as-is" after converting the Hull/Structure to Hull Points for combat. At least until I re-design all the ships we are using in 2e.

Thanks!

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:27 pm
by AndrewW
DickNervous wrote:I looked at another ship design (440t Gazelle Close Escort) last night and the new version was actually very different from 1e.
The S9 Fighting Ships version was converted, not the Mongoose Core Rulebook version.

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:17 pm
by SSWarlock
DickNervous wrote:
SSWarlock wrote:I don't have questions to your answers but I wanted to ask you for the reasoning behind your comment of "Even with the 2 particle beam turrets, which now require a barbette..." I'm confused by this because page 68 of High Guard 2e explicitly lists particle beams as turret weapons at TL12 (2nd line in the Turret Weapons chart).
This is what happens when you try to "build" a ship at 1am... I missed that :oops:
Lol. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.

Here's a fun design thought..take a few quad turrets, each with 4 Particle Beam weapons upgraded with Energy Efficiency and Very High Yield, along with a main computer running Fire Control 5.

Now..make the turrets pop ups and put the whole kit and kaboodle on a merchant.

:twisted:

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:32 pm
by DickNervous
SSWarlock wrote:
DickNervous wrote:
SSWarlock wrote:I don't have questions to your answers but I wanted to ask you for the reasoning behind your comment of "Even with the 2 particle beam turrets, which now require a barbette..." I'm confused by this because page 68 of High Guard 2e explicitly lists particle beams as turret weapons at TL12 (2nd line in the Turret Weapons chart).
This is what happens when you try to "build" a ship at 1am... I missed that :oops:
Lol. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.

Here's a fun design thought..take a few quad turrets each with 4 Particle Beam weapons upgraded with Energy Efficiency and Very High Yield, along with a main computer running Fire Control 5.

Now..make the turrets pop ups and put the whole kit and kaboodle on a merchant.

:twisted:
I'll be pulling that one on my players for sure. :)

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:54 am
by -Daniel-
Going back to the original question, I would love to see some sort of outline of things that I would need to do to convert a ship over to 2e from 1e. I think it might be useful as I did insert some third party designs into my version of the setting. So if I am going to move to 2e I would need to do some conversions, or at least it seems I would. :mrgreen:

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:26 am
by Belisknar
DickNervous wrote:Since I participated in the beta, I knew that the ship designs were changing drastically. And I knew that there was no way that all the ships from 1e could be represented in the new High Guard. After all there are details of ships in Book 3 - Scout, Book 6 - Scoundrel, all of the Alien modules, Traders & Gunboats, Fighting Ships, Merchants & Cruisers, and I am sure others that I haven't mentioned. (Actually makes me wonder just how many ship designs were published for 1e....). Anyway, back on track. And to be honest, I was pleasantly surprised at just how many ships are detailed in the new High Guard book.

Unfortunately, several of the ships that my players currently own are not in there. So last night I took one, the 400t Armed Fast Smuggler (Traders and Gunboats, pgs 60-61) , and worked up a 2e version of the standard design with the upgraded weapons my players put in. Even with the 2 particle beam turrets, which now require a barbette, the new ship comes in about Mcr34 cheaper and with 30t extra space. So the first question I have for people is, does that sound right? (I did it by hand which is why I am not posting anything...)

The second question is, has anyone worked up some kind of system for converting ships? Even if it is just rough estimates?
I'd done some conversions with the beta rules of HG with some of the ships that my group have access to and there is definitely extra space if you do a straight conversion. Though 30 tons is quite a lot, especially since you changed 2 turrets into barbettes... Did you remember to add common areas? THat was where I first fell short. In 1E they are taken as just there where as in 2E you need to put the space aside based on your stateroom allocation.

If you did remember all that keep in mind that the fule requirements for the powerplant are significantly lower than they were in 1E. So unless you Put the 120 Ton tank in, that knocked about 30 Tons off your total before you even started a conversion.

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:18 pm
by AndrewW
Belisknar wrote:Did you remember to add common areas? THat was where I first fell short. In 1E they are taken as just there where as in 2E you need to put the space aside based on your stateroom allocation.
Not exactly, you still get the same allocation in terms of 4 tons per stateroom, deck plan wise those are usually drawn as 3 tons leaving 1 ton per stateroom for things like common areas.

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:16 pm
by allanimal
AndrewW wrote:
Belisknar wrote:Did you remember to add common areas? THat was where I first fell short. In 1E they are taken as just there where as in 2E you need to put the space aside based on your stateroom allocation.
Not exactly, you still get the same allocation in terms of 4 tons per stateroom, deck plan wise those are usually drawn as 3 tons leaving 1 ton per stateroom for things like common areas.
I don't think it has anything to do with deck plans.
The 1st Ed rules specified 4 tons for staterooms in the ship design process.
2nd ed has the same size, but also recommends common areas equal to 1/4 the size of staterooms.
What Belisknar was saying is that can help equalize the extra space we seem to come up when doing a line to line conversion from on 1st Ed ship stat blocks to 2nd ed.

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:23 pm
by Belisknar
allanimal wrote:
AndrewW wrote:
Belisknar wrote:Did you remember to add common areas? THat was where I first fell short. In 1E they are taken as just there where as in 2E you need to put the space aside based on your stateroom allocation.
Not exactly, you still get the same allocation in terms of 4 tons per stateroom, deck plan wise those are usually drawn as 3 tons leaving 1 ton per stateroom for things like common areas.
I don't think it has anything to do with deck plans.
The 1st Ed rules specified 4 tons for staterooms in the ship design process.
2nd ed has the same size, but also recommends common areas equal to 1/4 the size of staterooms.
What Belisknar was saying is that can help equalize the extra space we seem to come up when doing a line to line conversion from on 1st Ed ship stat blocks to 2nd ed.
Exactly my point.

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:00 pm
by AndrewW
allanimal wrote:I don't think it has anything to do with deck plans.
The 1st Ed rules specified 4 tons for staterooms in the ship design process.
2nd ed has the same size, but also recommends common areas equal to 1/4 the size of staterooms.
What Belisknar was saying is that can help equalize the extra space we seem to come up when doing a line to line conversion from on 1st Ed ship stat blocks to 2nd ed.
What I was saying is you still have the space allocated to them in the early edition, just not as a separate line item, so it's not as if they where just there. The space still comes from somewhere.

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:27 am
by DickNervous
No, I didn't include common space.
I did as close to a line-by-line conversion of the ship and the 2e version came out with extra space.
I don't think there is anything wrong with that, just was wondering if I did it right. :)

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:35 am
by -Daniel-
DickNervous wrote:No, I didn't include common space.
I did as close to a line-by-line conversion of the ship and the 2e version came out with extra space.
I don't think there is anything wrong with that, just was wondering if I did it right. :)
I don't think there is anything wrong, I would imagine it just shows a line for line conversion might miss some things. :D

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:12 am
by Solomani666
For quick and dirty conversion you could do what I do:
1. Just calculate the hull points.
2. Keep the same armor values.
3. Convert each weapon to the new values.
4. Multiply the operational weeks by 2.
5. Keep the same jump and maneuver stats.
6. Assume there is just enough power for all systems except when making a jump, or with jump if military.
7. Keep the same deck plans. (Doesn't effect combat, only boarding actions.)

You can do all the other calculations and redraw the deckplans later if desired.

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:05 am
by DickNervous
Thanks!

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:18 pm
by Solomani666
As far as deckplans go, I use the best looking ones I can find for that ship model and I don't care if the squares add up.

Re: 1e to 2e: Ship Conversion

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:29 pm
by -Daniel-
Solomani666 wrote:As far as deckplans go, I use the best looking ones I can find for that ship model and I don't care if the squares add up.
I think I am getting closer to this myself. I mean I want it to get close, but I am growing tired of trying to match up a one-for-one on every plan. :|