Pre-Career education VS Basic training

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Boldtaar
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Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby Boldtaar » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:22 am

If you start with a pre-career education how dose that inflict on basic training for the first career after that.
I guees a pre-career education counts as the first career?
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby rust2 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:30 am

I do not think so. As I read it, if the pre-career education takes place before the character's first career, the character gets the usual basic training of the first career.
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby mancerbear » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:10 am

Pre career education, by which I'm taking as meaning your background skills, have no impact on you careers or first career service skill inclusion.

If you mean University or Military College, then yes, that is your first career and you only get to pick one service skill from your next career.

At least that's how I read it. Happy to accept that I'm wrong if I am.
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:26 am

You could become a child prodigy.
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby -Daniel- » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:36 pm

I wish they had not deleted all the playtest threads. I know this was discussed and an answer was given. I admit though I do not remember what the answer was. Old man memory banks failed me. :oops:
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:58 pm

-Daniel- wrote:I wish they had not deleted all the playtest threads.
I think they were not deleted, but merged into this forum. Try searching?
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby -Daniel- » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:28 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote: Try searching?

Yes, I really did. I did not find the thread where I swore we received an official answer. But then maybe I am remembering it wrong and we never did get an official answer. :|

Would be nice to have one though. :mrgreen:
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby alex_greene » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:38 am

"Pre-Career" means just that. It comes before your career. You can go through the pre-career road, go through Uni and Med School, and you go through Boot Camp once you've finished with that road and embark on your first career, even if your first career is at age 26.
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby -Daniel- » Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:42 pm

alex_greene wrote:"Pre-Career" means just that. It comes before your career. You can go through the pre-career road, go through Uni and Med School, and you go through Boot Camp once you've finished with that road and embark on your first career, even if your first career is at age 26.
Yes, the term "Pre-Career" is clear, what is not clear is what the "boot camp" would be for the first career. Please take a look at the skills received in the Military Academy. You receive the six skills at zero just like you would in boot camp for a first term in a military career. So receiving them again in your second term "First Career" just does not make sense. What is the point of receiving a second set of the exact same skills at zero? See why this seems unclear?
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby Condottiere » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:12 pm

I think ShadowRun does a neater job with modules that cover childhood, nationality, parental background, and education.

You can negotiate with the Dungeon Master what your character's background skills are.
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby alex_greene » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:20 pm

I think the advantage of Military Academy comes if you graduate - you gain three of those Basic Training skills at 1, EDU and SOC both increase, if you graduate and graduate with honours.

The biggest advantage of Military Academy is that you have a chance of entering the military career at O1 from the outset with a commission roll. If you graduate with honours, this is assured.

As for the skills, have you ever gone from one learning environment into another one where you are learning the exact same skills? If your guys end up going through boot camp twice, and seem to gain nothing in the way of skills ... that has an unfortunate ring of truth to it.
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby -Daniel- » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:42 pm

alex_greene wrote:I think the advantage of Military Academy comes if you graduate - you gain three of those Basic Training skills at 1, EDU and SOC both increase, if you graduate and graduate with honours.

The biggest advantage of Military Academy is that you have a chance of entering the military career at O1 from the outset with a commission roll. If you graduate with honours, this is assured.

As for the skills, have you ever gone from one learning environment into another one where you are learning the exact same skills? If your guys end up going through boot camp twice, and seem to gain nothing in the way of skills ... that has an unfortunate ring of truth to it.
I do not disagree that the academy has an advantage to it. That was never the question.

The question remains, regardless of well worded opinions in this and several other threads, has not been answered from an official source that I could find and it would be nice to have an answer. What did they intend? But until then, each GM is free to handle it how they wish.
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby alex_greene » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:01 pm

It very much looks like boot camp would not be able to teach a graduate from Military Academy anything new. Who knew?

It almost sounds as if the point of Boot Camp was not to teach people skills, more like turn people into soldiers fit for battle, and equip them with just enough knowledge of how to handle a rifle to know which end of the gun to point at the enemy.
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby -Daniel- » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:06 pm

alex_greene wrote:It very much looks like boot camp would not be able to teach a graduate from Military Academy anything new. Who knew?
If I remember correctly all those newly minted Jr Officers were well known for knowing everything when they come out of the academy. :lol:
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby alex_greene » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:27 pm

-Daniel- wrote:
alex_greene wrote:It very much looks like boot camp would not be able to teach a graduate from Military Academy anything new. Who knew?
If I remember correctly all those newly minted Jr Officers were well known for knowing everything when they come out of the academy. :lol:
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby Condottiere » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:36 pm

Something about the most dangerous thing being a lieutenant and a map.
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby alex_greene » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:02 pm

So it looks as if, barring a new skill appearing as a result of an Event, your graduate would only learn the exact same skills he learned at Military Academy, at level 0, which renders them kind of useless to a freshman Academy graduate already brimming with skills.
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby -Daniel- » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:46 am

Condottiere wrote:Something about the most dangerous thing being a lieutenant and a map.
I have heard that said. :mrgreen:
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby Infojunky » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:46 am

alex_greene wrote:It very much looks like boot camp would not be able to teach a graduate from Military Academy anything new. Who knew?
Booter Brown Bars tend to pretty dense, three years running I got stuck with 2nd and 3rd year middies on their Summer Vacation "cruises, my CO's instruction was to gently introduce them to the idea of asking their leading NCOs for how to get stuff down.
alex_greene wrote:It almost sounds as if the point of Boot Camp was not to teach people skills, more like turn people into soldiers fit for battle, and equip them with just enough knowledge of how to handle a rifle to know which end of the gun to point at the enemy.
No, Boot Camp teaches the basic of being a member of a Maritime military service, Basic Hygiene, first aid, history/law, plus basic Team building... Plus basic Fire Fighting for the Navy, Infantry training for the Corp. As for the Basic Training the Army and Air Force go through I can't say....
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Re: Pre-Career education VS Basic training

Postby alex_greene » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:24 am

I was hoping to get some input from forum members with real Service experience to pitch in.

Can we have some good recommendations from you, while this topic has your interest? If it's good, it could go in as a writeup in The Traveller Companion, down the road - a close look at other pre-career education options, including med school, pre-career psion testing and training to turn out Travellers who are psions from the first career term, and maybe even preteen groups like the equivalent of the Boy Scouts and Brownies.

Basic Training could also be given a good looking at, and if Mongoose are intent on giving us the Companion I'm sure that any future writers dealing with Basic Training options could do with a good look at what is discussed here.
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