New vs Previous Traveller

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
DuneFox
Cub
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:05 pm

New vs Previous Traveller

Postby DuneFox » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:02 am

Before I order the New Traveller - is it compatible with the previous MGP Traveller?
I have all the Mongoose Traveller books and .pdfs so I just want to know before I spend more money
mancerbear
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:34 am

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby mancerbear » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:14 am

Easily backwards compatible. Some skills have been condensed, a new mechanic or two. Nothing you won't pick up.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 2947
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:19 am

DuneFox wrote:Before I order the New Traveller - is it compatible with the previous MGP Traveller?
I have all the Mongoose Traveller books and .pdfs so I just want to know before I spend more money
There are a few rule tweaks here and there. It's pretty easy to convert between both game rules. I plan to keep using all my 1st edition books with the new 2nd edition rules.
DuneFox
Cub
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:05 pm

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby DuneFox » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:33 am

I heard that you have to wait for shop construction rules?
Ouch!
mancerbear
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:34 am

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby mancerbear » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:42 am

The wait is now only about 3 weeks. Not painful at all
AndrewW
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4281
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:57 pm

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby AndrewW » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:43 am

DuneFox wrote:I heard that you have to wait for shop construction rules?
Ouch!
Instead of having the ship construction rules split between the Core Rulebook and High Guard (and various bits in other books) it was decided to integrate the various bits together and put it all in High Guard, leaving more room in the Core Rulebook for other stuff.
phavoc
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4846
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:13 pm

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby phavoc » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:54 am

2e of Traveller is not a significant change. The bad about the ship rules is that you need to buy a new book. The good is that they finally combined things and build small ships the same way you do the bigger ones (using percentages, not tables).

With that being said, you need to make your own decision to upgrade or not. Because there are no monumental changes, there is no real reason to swap versions at the moment. Figure out what is important to you and base your decision on that.
legozhodani
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:27 pm
Location: UK

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby legozhodani » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:18 am

Not a huge change in rules. Streamlined a bit and better laid out to find things. As for the ship building, I think it's a good thing to split. Those who don't care about ship building will just pick a ship or build one that looks like what they want with no regard to rules, because in their Travller it's not relevant or waorth the time/effort. For those who wish to sort down to the last inspection panel will always feel the basics in the rulebook would drop short and get Highguard either way. So I think it's a good decision.
Being dyslexic I find the new layout with pictures and stronger headers much easier than the old core rule book. Overall a nice product, needed, maybe not but worth it? Yes.
nats
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:34 pm
Location: Pocklington, East Riding of Yorkshire

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby nats » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:19 pm

My own experience is that many of the old books are not relevant to the new Traveller v2. Animals, vehicles, ships, are all very different. The only things that are similar are the combat rules and the character generation although both weapons ranges and skills have also been changed dramatically enough to make most books that feature any of the above rather redundant.

I mean sure you can always use elements of the older rules books in new systems - some things never change. Most adventures for example can be modified easily and ship deckplans can generally be used quite well between systems. I would say of all the older V1 books, and other than adventures, only Spinward Marches and the revised 720 Patrons books are really useable with no lengthy modifications. I suppose most people will keep the older books for flavour and ideas, me I can get those off the internet/films/novels if need be. I think many people also keep old Traveller books for the sake of having a complete collection. I sort of fell into that trap a while ago, now I am clutter free.

I am getting more flexible with role playing these days - I make up most of my own stuff no need for loads and loads of rules anymore, the core rule book + 2/3 others do me fine.
6A6AB9, Citizen(Corporate), 8th Term, Rank 3, Cr Enough
Trade(Architecture)3, Art(3d Illustration)2, Computers2, Admin2, Leader1, Drive(Wheeled)1, Advocate1, Art(Painting)1, Flyer0
Comm(TL7), Computer(TL8), Binoculars(TL6), Tent(TL7), Ground Car(TL7)
Tenacious-Techhunter
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 746
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:54 am

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby Tenacious-Techhunter » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:46 pm

phavoc wrote:2e of Traveller is not a significant change. The bad about the ship rules is that you need to buy a new book. The good is that they finally combined things and build small ships the same way you do the bigger ones (using percentages, not tables).
While it might be reasonable to base performance on percentages, models should not be based on percentages. When you combine the importance of “tried and true” equipment with the economies of scale of producing the same model of Power Plant/Maneuver Drive/Jump Drive in additional bulk, practically speaking, a Ship Manufacturing company is going to buy an existing piece of equipment already used in another ship to outfit a new model ship with; which means buying off a table, not as a function of volume. Now, because one ship will be slightly bigger than another, the performance will have differences between designs... to which you can reasonably attribute a performance difference... but you generally wouldn’t, for the convenience of game mechanics.

And while there are exceptions, they should be priced as exceptions. Is a custom Stealth Maneuver Drive really worth its price if you can just install a third party mod on your existing drive for a little extra displacement? Hmm...

See the auto industry reusing engines, transmissions, and frames between one manufacturer and the next as real-life examples.
HalC
Mongoose
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby HalC » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:57 am

Hi All,
I largely suspect that this comes under thread necromancy, but the questions I have really should be a continuation of this thread than opening up my own, so here goes...

I picked up the Naval Campaign Sourcebook with an eye towards running a naval campaign. I only own the First edition of the Core rule book, and am reticent about paying another $30 for the second edition PDF.

I'm NOT asking for an explanation of the game mechanics in an effort to not have to buy the second edition - but I am asking to find out of certain things were changed from First edition to where you, the owner of both First and Second edition can answer with a yes/no style answer.

Now that I've got that out of the way - I've noted that the NCS (Naval Campaign Sourcebook) discusses moral checks, leadership rolls, etc. The quality of success (how much the roll succeeded by) is also important in the game mechanics. When it goes into detail about the difficulty of the roll, it might say Average, Difficult, etc. So far, nothing there seems to be out of the ordinary. The player rolls against their Attribute bonus( or penalty), plus Skill, plus 2d6 vs a given target number. For instance, someone with a zero stat bonus, skill 3, rolling to reach a target value of 10+ needs to roll a 7+ on 2d6 to succeed. That much makes sense. Does the 2nd edition of the rules go into any further depth, make any changes (however subtle) that can throw off my understanding of the NCS from the mindset of MgT1st?

Jump accuracy: The rules in the first edition, while there, are maddeningly imprecise. It is as if someone forgot to include some minor details where the rules described do not match the "prologue" of play example at the start of the book. Was this fixed in the Second edition to where the values are more precisely regulated by the rules?

Just curious - and on the fence between not spending the $30 and potentially spending it. If it is a matter of buying something else instead because the above two criteria make the 2nd edition a non-essential purchase, I'd rather go that route than to decide after buying the 2nd, that it become the last purchase.
Linwood
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:41 am

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby Linwood » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:03 am

The only significant change in your example that I’m aware of is Boon/Bane mechanic. But I’m not familiar enough with the MGT1 rules to be sure of that.
Garran
Stoat
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:25 pm

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby Garran » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:18 pm

1E handled difficulty as a modifier to the check with a fixed target number, 2E assigns a target number for difficulty. The math is the same but arrived at differently, but it's worth bearing in mind when translating difficulties and target numbers between editions.

Jump mechanics are different because Power is now a ship stat, so you don't have the Divert Power step by default. It's just Astrogation -> Jump (using Engineer/J-Drive), and the base difficulty for the latter is lower. In the context of the naval campaign you can probably just assume that the ship jumps successfully unless there's a good plot reason for it not to - military vessels have enough hardware/trained crew/etc that they aren't likely to blow any of the checks unless something has gone VERY wrong.
HalC
Mongoose
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby HalC » Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:47 pm

So whether the modifier is -2 or the target number is 10, the math works out the same overall. That was the gut feeling I had - but the one thing I hoped would be "fixed" is that the narrative given at the start of the book, detailing how far away from the intended destination the ship arrived at, was finally given game mechanics that would allow the GM to give such an answer. I'm guessing that it was largely unchanged. <shrug>

If the essential aspect of the skills remain unchanged, and the difference is now that difficulty values are increments of 2 higher than the lesser difficulty, it would seem that the target numbers might be:

6,8,10, and 12 where 6 might be easy, 8 is standard, and 10 is difficult, with 12 being really difficult/hard/impossible.

In all, I'm likely better off not buying the 2nd edition unless someone can point out the "must haves" as to the gems contained within that the first edition did not contain.
HalC
Mongoose
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby HalC » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:58 pm

Sometimes I hate doing research...

:(

While doing a google search on reviews, I came across the fact that Mongoose Traveller 2nd edition is available on Fantasy Grounds. When I run any Traveller Campaign on Fantasy Grounds, it tends to be GURPS TRAVELLER. That Mongoose Traveller has the capability of being run on Fantasy Grounds may end up being my kryptonite...

<sigh>
Old School
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 868
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:41 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby Old School » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:01 pm

If you like designing ships or vehicles, beware. The design systems are changed enough to matter, so if you’re using 2nd ed supplements and want to design something, they won’t match up. Not a big deal unless you like designing. If you’re just using what’s published it shouldn’t matter much.

Personally I like all the changes in 2nd edition, so I consider it an improvement. But 1st edition is perfectly playable.
rinku
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 596
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:16 am
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby rinku » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:17 am

Most of the skill changes are just shuffling proficiencies around. The major one you'll notice is that the various electronics operation skills (Computer, Sensors, Comms, Remote Ops) have been bundled into Electronics, while the hardware aspect of the old Electronics is done with Mecanical (for fixing up stuff) and in some cases Engineering (for design). Battledress is now gone as a separate skill - you just use Vacc Suit skill to operate that (higher levels of skill being needed, depending on the suit). Gun combat merges Shotgun with Slugs. Sciences are all now part of one "Science" skill instead of several separate ones. Each actual science is still a different specialisation, but it means that someone with Science (Astronomy) 2 essentially has Science (Philosophy) 0. If that bugs you, it's no trouble to change it back to Physical, Social, Space etc as in 1E. Athletics skill has been redefined and fills in more, e.g. Zero-G skill has been replaced with using Athletics (DEX). There's nothing that makes a character rolled up under 1E a problem for play under 2E, but you may need to rename some of their skills.

The Boon/Bane mechanic is easily explained and able to be added to 1E without changing much. Effectively, instead of endlessly adding and subtracting modifiers for things that help or hinder a task, add up all the plusses and the minuses, and whichever is more than the other imposes a boon or bane. The mechanic is to add an extra die to the task roll, and to discard the high roll if a bane is imposed, or the low roll if a boon is in effect. So it has NO effect on the range of numbers that can be rolled, but still helps or hinders.

There are still some issues with the rules (the dodge rule needs work; it gives no benefit for average DEX characters without Athletics (DEX) skill. One fix is to make shooting at a dodging character a Bane as well as applying their DM as a negative), but it's pretty much free of typos. The skill tables are much improved from 1E, although some of that may be applying 1E errata. Some nice improvements in the character design sequence, such as University/Military Academy and the Prisoner "career" for some bad events.

Ship design has been moved to 2E High Guard, but the core book still has most of the expected common ships and ship combat rules. For the most part you should be fine to use 1E ship design to tweak the 2E ships (swapping out Cargo for more Staterooms or more fuel tankage, adding turrets etc).
rinku
Moppy
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:42 pm

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby Moppy » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:02 am

Why is Athletics DEX? Jump run throw is STR for effect and END for duration. Aiming a throw might come under DEX but that's ranged combat and not athletics.
Garran
Stoat
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:25 pm

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby Garran » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:29 am

I'm not quite sure what you're asking there? Throwing things is covered by Athletics under both systems. (Athletics/Coordination in 1E and Athletics/Dexterity in 2E.)

If you only have the 1E book and maybe misinterpreted the previous post, Athletics still has specializations - they're just straightforward Str/Dex/End specializations that add to the relevant stat rolls. (There's no Flying specialization and Coordination is folded into Dex specialization.)

Operating effectively in Low-G environments now falls under Athletics/Dexterity (replacing the Zero-G skill), and in High-G environments falls under Athletics/Strength (no specific skill in 1E IIRC).
Old School
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 868
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:41 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New vs Previous Traveller

Postby Old School » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:05 pm

In the example give , Athletics (Dex) is used for maintaining control in Zero G. Would also be used for any acrobatic type skill roll. Athletics (Str) and Athletics (End) are different sub-skills used where appropriate.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests