New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
ShawnDriscoll
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:44 am

Tenacious-Techhunter wrote:Failure of a director to achieve complete realism within the limits of earthbound resources is by no means a failure to achieve Hard Science Fiction.
Spoken like ELIZA.
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby fusor » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:47 am

ShawnDriscoll wrote:There are scenes in 2001 that have billowing clouds in vacuum, and a ship's captain leaning on the back of someone's chair in zero-g.
There you have it, according to Shawn - The Authority On Everything - Hard Scifi does not and cannot ever exist, because absolutely everything must be 100% realistic in it - if there is even a single tiny error or omission or oversight, it cannot be hard scifi. Which of course is utter nonsense.

Again, stop trolling.
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:53 am

fusor wrote:
ShawnDriscoll wrote:There are scenes in 2001 that have billowing clouds in vacuum, and a ship's captain leaning on the back of someone's chair in zero-g.
There you have it, according to Shawn - The Authority On Everything - Hard Scifi does not and cannot ever exist, because absolutely everything must be 100% realistic in it - if there is even a single tiny error or omission or oversight, it cannot be hard scifi. Which of course is utter nonsense.

Again, stop trolling.
So far, there's no definition of what hard sci-fi is. It's a made-up term. Not sure why you would assign a made-up term to something that doesn't match it anyway? I prefer my Traveller science to be hand-waved, as it was originally designed. As how all sci-fi novels were written that Traveller borrows from. Agent of the Imperium uses the best sci-fi hand-waving. There's no "hard" anything sci-fi about it.
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby fusor » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:04 am

ShawnDriscoll wrote:So far, there's no definition of what hard sci-fi is. It's a made-up term. Not sure why you would assign a made-up term to something that doesn't match it anyway?
Making up an unachievable standard such as the one you apparently have for it is just ridiculous though - as anyone who wasn't just unconstructively sniping into arguments for the sake of it like you are would realize.

You're basically saying that Hard Scifi must be - without exception - 100% realistic about absolutely everything, which it can't be - therefore according to you Hard Science Fiction cannot and does not exist. So I guess all those authors who think they write hard scifi and pretty much define the genre with their work must be delusional and wrong, because they go against your Authoritative Word On The Matter?
ShawnDriscoll
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:07 am

fusor wrote:You're basically saying that Hard Scifi must be - without exception - 100% realistic about absolutely everything, which it can't be - therefore according to you Hard Science Fiction cannot and does not exist. So I guess all those authors who think they write hard scifi and pretty much define the genre with their work must be delusional and wrong, because they go against your Authoritative Word On The Matter?
I'm saying that hard sci-fi doesn't mean anything. It's a made-up term.

If you drive somewhere now, was there hard-sci-fi?

If you drive somewhere in the future, was there hard-sci-fi?

You just drive somewhere is all. A story is still a story, no matter what time it takes place in.
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby fusor » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:15 am

ShawnDriscoll wrote:I'm saying that hard sci-fi doesn't mean anything. It's a made-up term.
You seemed quite willing to chip in earlier and declare to us all with your Superior Knowledge that 2001 wasn't hard scifi without regard to whether you thought it was a "made-up term" or not. Apparently you've now changed your mind because TROLL.

There may not be agreement on what exactly how it's defined, but it's very obviously not a "made-up term" in the sense that it's "totally arbitrary". Hard scifi still has certain commonalities to it.

Anyway, it's pointless to discuss anything with you further.
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:29 am

fusor wrote:
ShawnDriscoll wrote:I'm saying that hard sci-fi doesn't mean anything. It's a made-up term.
You seemed quite willing to chip in earlier and declare to us all with your Superior Knowledge that 2001 wasn't hard scifi without regard to whether you thought it was a "made-up term" or not. Apparently you've now changed your mind because TROLL.

There may not be agreement on what exactly how it's defined, but it's very obviously not a "made-up term" in the sense that it's "totally arbitrary". Hard scifi still has certain commonalities to it.

Anyway, it's pointless to discuss anything with you further.
You mean realism. Realism actually means something. Parts of 2001 are not realistic, that is true.

If hard sci-fi is as common-place as you think it is, then there should be companies that have been mass-producing games/movies for years now that make use of it.

Still waiting for a definition of what hard sci-fi is.

If you want to say that, in relative terms, one book or movie has more realistic science or technology or physics in it than another, that's something else. If you slap the label HARD SCI-FI on it, you're just being lazy and hand-waving that one is more realistic than the other is all.
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby Reynard » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:35 am

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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby Jame Rowe » Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:34 pm

Hey Reynard, I take it you want to out-fox us? :wink:
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby Reynard » Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:58 pm

The fox went out on a chilly night
Looked up wiki to get it right
Many a post to read though and cite
Before he reached conclusion

And I have done my job.... THANK YOU, THANK YOU!
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:04 pm

Image
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby Reynard » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:12 pm

DON"T ENCOURAGE ME! I've been thinking about a Traveller race of Space Bunnies for a while already. And I'll base it on hard science. I WILL!! But first, Space Hamsters inspired by the guinea pig chick in the skin tight black space clothes from the Kia Soul commercial. I WILL!!!

.... or have I diverged again from the original topic of this thread, whatever that was?
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby legozhodani » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:19 pm

I HATE guinea pigs with a passion! I will fight to you the whole way. In a hard science way of course.
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby fusor » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:37 pm

Reynard wrote:DON"T ENCOURAGE ME! I've been thinking about a Traveller race of Space Bunnies for a while already. And I'll base it on hard science. I WILL!! But first, Space Hamsters inspired by the guinea pig chick in the skin tight black space clothes from the Kia Soul commercial. I WILL!!!
Albedo beat you to it. ;)

Image

.... or have I diverged again from the original topic of this thread, whatever that was?
Oh, that's ancient history by now...
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby legozhodani » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:49 pm

So this is all the fault of the Ancients?
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:51 pm

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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby rust2 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:54 pm

legozhodani wrote:So this is all the fault of the Ancients?
I knew it, in the end someone would put the blame on me ... :(
"Mind like parachute, functions only when open"
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:52 pm

So now we know why the Vargr were uplifted.
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby Lysander » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:43 am

fusor wrote:
Lysander wrote:There's a reason I seldom read anything Traveller related because of some of the types sci-fi RPGs tend to attract.
Says the guy throwing insults at someone who wishes that Traveller was more flexible and had more options.

Strikes me that I've yet to call someone else a "Troll" on multiple occasions whom I might disagree with...as have you. I recognize that self-awareness is a relatively rare trait, though.

Regardless, when I read these debates I always question whether those who, essentially, want to run simulations (their personal simulations, btw) have ever played the game with other people. Traveller is, well, Traveller. It's not Eclipse Phase (I'm hoping to play it in the near future with our group since I love "Altered Carbon") or Transhuman Space. No doubt worthwhile games in their own right, I'm sure.

The game that some want isn't Traveller. That's all well and good that they want to make it something other than what it is but my suggestion is that they build their own game....though my guess is that few ultimately choose to play in it....at least for very long. I have played in, quite literally, 1,000 RPG game sessions (with living, breathing people sitting across the table) usually with 6-10 others with an average session lasting 3-5 hours since I discovered RPGs post law school (having solely been a wargamer previously). I'm not sure if that's good thing or represents a misspent life but, nonetheless, as I actually calculate the rough numbers - it's around 1,000. A diverse table consisting of lawyers, teachers, businessmen, truck drivers, carpenters, football coaches, computer analysts, high school dropouts, college students (one a Cal Berkley physics student - great kid...now a great grown-up), etc. - probably 15-20% of those games I personally ran. People came and went as their lives changed, were transferred, etc. - but it's always hovered at 6-10 people every weekly (sometimes bi-weekly) session. Probably 200 or so of those games were Traveller games, btw. We play every Monday and have for over 20 years (we miss 3-4 weeks annually due to holidays, etc.).

It took no particular genius to understand that the players were there to have fun......and that it wasn't about ME. It wasn't a laboratory for me to put the players through the latest rendition of string theory or quantum physics. It certainly wasn't a place to show myself as the smartest guy in the room....far from it - I'd give the truck driver that as regards core intelligence. The smartest amongst them were as well informed as anyone here but they weren't there to play in a simulation either (mine or anyone else's). They were (prepare to be shocked) there to have a good time and hang with their buddies. More than in other types of RPGs it always seems to me that some sci-fi rpg players (perhaps a misnomer because I doubt they actually "play") forget that, by their very nature, tabletop RPGs are intended to be a fundamentally social activity. Perhaps that explains the general overall popularity of fantasy vs. sci- fi.

We did, many years ago, have "that guy" in our game. Since he didn't play well with others he didn't last very long.

No doubt he posts a lot these days about how he can make most any RPG better....since he likely still has time on his hands. I'm sure he has also designed several tens of thousands of vehicles using "Fire, Fusion and Steel"...and, no doubt, found fault with them all. The rest of us just haven't had the time since we're too busy playing.
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Re: New Paizo SF RPG: Competitor with Traveller?

Postby legozhodani » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:29 am

Bravo Sir!

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