Jump Train

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AnotherDilbert
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Jump Train

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:47 pm

The Jump Train.
The idea is to establish regular service between high population worlds, e.g. Rhylanor and Mora. I expect a high volume of trade and passengers between them. By using small standardised modules (Carriages) carried by a jump tug (Engine), we can have, say, daily departures.
A simple network would be:
Rhylanor - Cipatwe
Cipatwe - Magash
Cipatwe - Brodie
Brodie - Mora
Brodie - Fornice
When the Engine jumps between e.g. Rhylanor and Cipatwe it carries Carriages for any destination that are then shunted to the the right destination. The Engines jumps back and forth between two stations using drop tanks. The drop tanks are retrieved and reused at each station. Each Engine should be able to jump every 9 days, 7 days in jump, 1 day to accelerate to high port, shunt carriages, and accelerate to jump point, and 1 day in reserve. Each line can be services by as many Engines as needed to handle the traffic.
The Engines are manufactured at TL 15 for drop tank safety, the Carriages are manufactured at TL 12 for ease of service.
The passenger carriages are equipped with power and station-keeping drives and serves as life boats.


Engine:
J-4, M-1 (with drop tanks and carriages), 4600 dT, 16400 dT drop tank, MCr 4330 in bulk

Code: Select all

TL 15               HullP 1656                     4811,3     
                         Desired  Rat  #   dTonn   Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        4600           920     46  
Config  Sphere               3     3                127      
Hull strength  Light         1     1            
                  
JumpD      Budget, Late      4     4   1    2465   2773   9840           70
ManœuvreD  Budget, EneIneff  1     1   1     410    615   5125           12
PowerP  TL12:1*Size                    1     590    649   9840           17
                  
Drop Tank Collar 16400,0 dT  1     1   1      66     33      
Drop Tank        16400,0 dT                         410      
Fuel, Jump                  
Fuel, Power                  4     4   1      59        
Fuel Purification                  
                  
Bridge                       1         1      60     23      
    Holographic              1         1              6      
Comp         m/25            5    25   1             10      
Backup Comp  m/20            4    20   1              5      
Jump/4  20                                            0,4      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4   1       5      5      6    
Array  Rapid Extension       9     2   1      10     21      
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2   1       2      8      2    
                  
Staterooms                100%   121 121     484     61      
Common Areas               25%   25%   1     121     12      
Briefing Room                1         1       4      1      
Library                      1         1       4      4      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1         3      12      6      
Workshop                     1         1       6      1      
Armoury                      1         6       6      2      
Brig                  
Low Berths                  10    10   1       5      1     10    
Cargo                                         92                          
                    
Docking Clamp  Type IV      10        10     200     40      
Carried Craft  2000 dT      10              
                  

                    
Crew               137              
  Command           13  
  Bridge             9  
      Pilot                3
      Astrogator           1
      Sensor & EW          5  
  Engineer         109  
      Engineer            99
      Maintenance          9,2
  Service            6  
      Admin                4,6
      Medic                1,021666667
      Steward              0
  Gunner    
  Flight    
  Troops    


Freight Carriage:
2000 dT, 1944 dT cargo, MCr 88 in bulk

Code: Select all

TL 12                  HullP 720                     97,857      
                         Desired  Rat  #   dTonn   Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        2000            400     20  
Config  Sphere               3     3                 55      
Hull strength  Light         1     1            
 
ManœuvreD  Budget, EneIneff  0         1      10     15     125           0
PowerP                                 1      50     31     625           1
Fuel, Power                  4     4   1       5         
 
Comp         m/10            2    10   1              0      
Backup Comp  m/5 fib         1     5   1              0      
Software     Virtual Crew/0                           1      
                  
Sensors  Basic                         1          

Cargo                                       1944       

3rd Class Carriage:
2000 dT, 400 mid passengers, 100 low passengers, MCr 305 in bulk.

Code: Select all

TL 12                  HullP 720                    338,92      
                         Desired  Rat  #   dTonn   Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        2000            400     20  
Config  Sphere               3     3                 55      
Hull strength  Light         1     1            
 
ManœuvreD  Budget, EneIneff  0         1      10     15     125           0
PowerP                                 1      50     31     625           1
Fuel, Power                8 w     8   1      10         
 
Comp         m/10            2    10   1              0      
Backup Comp  m/5 fib         1     5   1              0      
Software     Virtual Crew/0                           1      
                  
Sensors  Basic                         1          

Staterooms                100%   416 416    1664    208    
Common Areas                8%    8%   1     125     12    
Library                      1         1       4      4    
Medical Bay                  1         1       4      2    
Low Berths                 100   100   1      50      5     100  
Cargo                                         43      
                
Crew               15            
  Command           1            
  Bridge            1            
      Pilot               1          
  Engineer          4  
      Engineer            2
      Maintenance         2
  Service           9  
      Admin               1
      Medic               3,417
      Steward             4

Passengers      
  High              0  
  Mid             400
  Low             100


2nd Class Carriage:
2000 dT, 275 high passengers, 100 low passengers, MCr 274 in bulk.

Code: Select all

TL 12                  HullP 720                    304,33      
                         Desired  Rat  #   dTonn   Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        2000            400     20  
Config  Sphere               3     3                 55      
Hull strength  Light         1     1            
 
ManœuvreD  Budget, EneIneff  0         1      10     15     125           0
PowerP                                 1      50     31     625           1
Fuel, Power                8 w     8   1      10         
 
Comp         m/10            2    10   1              0      
Backup Comp  m/5 fib         1     5   1              0      
Software     Virtual Crew/0                           1      
                  
Sensors  Basic                         1          

Staterooms                100%   314 314    1256    157    
Common Areas               23%   23%   1     289     29    
Library                      1         1       4      4    
Medical Bay                  1         1       4      2    
Low Berths                 100   100   1      50      5     100  
Cargo                                        287      
                
Crew               39            
  Command           1            
  Bridge            1            
      Pilot               1          
  Engineer          4  
      Engineer            2
      Maintenance         2
  Service          32  
      Admin               1
      Medic               3,417
      Steward            27,5

Passengers      
  High            275  
  Mid               0
  Low             100

1st Class Carriage:
2000 dT, 30 grand lux high passengers, 110 de lux high passengers, MCr 290 in bulk.

Code: Select all

TL 12                  HullP 720                    322,44      
                         Desired  Rat  #   dTonn   Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        2000            400     20  
Config  Sphere               3     3                 55      
Hull strength  Light         1     1            
 
ManœuvreD  Budget, EneIneff  0         1      10     15     125           0
PowerP                                 1      50     31     625           1
Fuel, Power                8 w     8   1      10         
 
Comp         m/10            2    10   1              0      
Backup Comp  m/5 fib         1     5   1              0      
Software     Virtual Crew/0                           1      
                  
Sensors  Basic                         1          

Staterooms                100%    40  40     160     20
Stateroom, High            110   110 110     660     88
Stateroom, de Lux           30    30  30     300     45
Common Areas               50%   50%   1     556     56
Library                      1         1       4      4    
Medical Bay                  1         1       4      2    
Cargo                                        202      
                
Crew               40            
  Command           2            
  Bridge            1            
      Pilot               1          
  Engineer          4  
      Engineer            2
      Maintenance         2
  Service          32  
      Admin               1
      Medic               1,47
      Steward            30

Passengers      
  High            140  
  Mid               0
  Low               0  
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Jump Train

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:27 pm

And of course the J-6 Engine:

Jump-6 Engine:
J-6 (without drop tanks), M-1 (with drop tanks and carriages), 7600 dT, 41400 dT drop tank, MCr 7575 in bulk

Code: Select all

TL 15              HullP 2736                    8415,785      
                         Desired  Rat  #  dTonn  Cost  Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                       7600         1520     76  
Config  Sphere               3     3              209      
Hull strength  Light         1     1            
                  
JumpD      Budget, Late      6     6   1   4145  4663  16560    118
ManœuvreD  Budget, EneIneff  1     1   1    690  1035   8625     20
PowerP     TL12:1*Size                 1    994  1093  16560     28

Drop Tank Collar 41400,0 dT  1     1   1    166    83      
Drop Tank        41400,0 dT                      1035      
Fuel, Jump                  
Fuel, Power                  4     4   1     99        
Fuel Purification                  
                  
Command Bridge               1         1     80    57      
    Holographic              1         1           14      
Comp         m/30            5    30   1           20      
Backup Comp  m/25 bis        4    25   1           15      
Jump/6         30                                   0,6      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4   1      5     5      6    
Array  Distributed           9     3   1     10    11      
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2   1      2     8      2    
                    
Staterooms                100%   200 200    800   100      
Common Areas               25%   25%   1    200    20      
Briefing Room                1         1      4     1      
Library                      1         1      4     4      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1         4     16     8      
Workshop                     1         1      6     1      
Armoury                      1         8      8     2      
Low Berths                  10    10   1      5     1     10    
Cargo                                       166        
                  
Docking Clamp  Type IV      10        10    200    40      
Carried Craft  2000 dT      10              
                  
                  
                  
Crew              200              
  Command          10  
  Bridge            9  
      Pilot               1
      Astrogator          1
      Sensor & EW         7  
  Engineer        175  
      Engineer          167
      Maintenance         7,6
  Service           6  
      Admin               3,8
      Medic               1,565
      Steward             0
  Gunner    
  Flight    
  Troops    
With J-6 we can build a simpler network of:
Rhylanor - Fosey
Mora - Fosey
Fornice - Fosey
Lunion - Fosey

We'll even need fewer J-6 Engines since we only need two jumps, not three.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Jump Train

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:38 pm

Economic cost estimate (assuming one J-6 engine and ten high passage carriages):

Assume a jump every 9 days, minus 2 weeks maintenance per year: (360 - 14) / 9 ≈ 38 jumps / year

Base cost: MCr 8416 + 10 * 305 = MCr 11466
Bulk cost: MCr 11466 * 90% = MCr 10320

Mortgage yearly: 10320 / 240 * 12 = MCr 516
Maintenance year: 10320 * 0,1% = MCr 11
Life Support year: (200 + 10 * 314) * Cr 2000 * 12 = MCr 80
Salaries: ( 200 * 4000 + 390 * 2500 ) * 12 * 150% = MCr 32 (assume 150% crew, since they need vacations, sick leave, ...)
Fuel, year: 38 jump * 41400 dT * Cr 500 = MCr 787

Yearly operating expense: MCr 516 + 11 + 80 + 32 + 787 = MCr 1426
We have jumped 38 * 10 * 275 = 104500 passengers for an average cost of Cr 13650 per jump per stateroom.
If we triple that cost to cover drop tank tugs, vacancies, and a healthy profit margin we can sell the high passage tickets for Cr 41000.

Compared to the suggested price of Cr 470000 in the table on p 207 that is quite cheap.

Half the cost is fuel, if we were serious about this we would skim and process our own fuel or get a high-volume discount on fuel, saving perhaps a third of the total cost. Ticket prices would be about kCr 30 for high passage and kCr 20 for middle passage.

Conclusion: Freight and passage on the major shipping routes are much cheaper than on a free trader in the boondocks.
Chas
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Re: Jump Train

Postby Chas » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:26 am

What are the TLs of the related worlds and associated starports? Can really only see this working on a completely TL15 infrastructure which may not be available.
phavoc
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Re: Jump Train

Postby phavoc » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:29 am

From a TL perspective that really doesn't matter. You can easily bring in ships/tanks from somewhere else. Not unusual, though depending on what happens, a lack of local manufacturing means if you don't have spares, you are stuck until you get a replacement tank brought in by another ship.
PsiTraveller
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Re: Jump Train

Postby PsiTraveller » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:16 am

For Drop Tank Survival you need TL 14 to have it survive automatically. Until then you risk it unless you roll an 8+ with no modifier DM's, so that is not a good risk for a tank that can cost millions. pg 39 of Highguard

Fuel can be processed by Drone at TL 12 and above according to the Spaceport section, so if you brought in a few high TL tanks you could set up a shipping node and be supported by lower level technology. You would have to bring in a TL 14 crew for maintenance I suppose.

The first 1200 tons cargo from the 2000 ton cargo ship I mentioned in another thread coming into a new territory would be a TL 14 tank of 800 tons and 400 tons of TL 14 Tender ship and supplies. Refuel and the new node is ready to go.

It would be the Jump train equivalent of carrying in the technology modules on the maiden voyage and then setting up a new station. They would Jump in what they needed in terms of high tech gear, and locally source the fuel and lower tech supplies. The more trips in and the faster the expansion of the node is.
Chas
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Re: Jump Train

Postby Chas » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:49 am

woops, yes TL14 of course. There'd be a point of low return though the further you got away from a TL14 source I'd imagine. Costs and ongoing supply would increase dramatically. It would have to be a particularly profitable run to justify it.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Jump Train

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:05 am

Chas wrote:What are the TLs of the related worlds and associated starports? Can really only see this working on a completely TL15 infrastructure which may not be available.
I agree, we must have a major TL15 world on, or at the very least, close to the network to build and maintain the components.

Not coincidentally Rhylanor and Mora are both high population TL15 subsector capitals. Which is why I assumed there would be a high volume of trade between them.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Jump Train

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:08 pm

We need massive amounts of refined fuel and the starports are rather expensive. Let's see if we can do better.


Ocean fuel skimmer.
The ocean on the world is much closer than a distant gas giant. So we skim locally.
58000 dT, skims 41500 dT fuel. MCr 6600 in bulk.
M-1, Reaction-1 with 1 round of fuel to boost us out of the water.
Built at TL12 for ease of maintenance.
Designed to skim, process, and offload the fuel in 8h.

Code: Select all

TL 12            HullP 20880                         7333,6      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power 
Hull                                        58000          11600    
Config  Streamlined          2     2                 3480      
Hull strength  Standard      1     1            
Aerofins                     1     1         2900     290      
                  
ManœuvreD  Budget, EneIneff  2     2    1     580     870   7540   
PowerP     TL8:2*Size                   1    1532     958  19156    
    Emergency Power          1          1     153      96    
                  
Fuel, Jump                                  41500        
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1     151        
Fuel Purification          6 h   6 h    1    8300     415      
                  
ReactionD  VAdv, 2*Size      1     1    1     928     232   
Reaction Fuel    1 turn      0          0      73  
                  
Bridge                       1          1      60     290      
    Holographic              1          1              73      
Comp         m/30            6    30    1              20      
Backup Comp  m/25            5    25    1              10      
                  
Sensors  Improved            9     3    1       3       4      4    
Array  Distributed           9     3    1       6       9      
Shallow Penetration Suite    1     1    1      10       5      1    
Signal Processing  Improved  9     1    1       1       4      1    
                    
Staterooms                 50%   191   96     384      48      
Common Areas                0%    0%            
Briefing Room                1          1       4       1      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1          4      16       8      
Workshop                     1          1       6       1      
Armoury                      1          8       8       2      
Low Berths                  10    10    1       5       1     10    
Cargo                                         340        
UNREP    Offload 2 h      1038       1038    1038     519      
                  
                  
                  
Crew             191              
  Command         10  
  Bridge           5  
      Pilot              1
      Astrogator         0
      Sensor & EW        4  
  Engineer       145  
      Engineer          92,8
      Maintenance       58,0
  Service         31  
      Admin             29,0
      Medic              1,6
      Steward            0,0
  Gunner    
  Flight    
  Troops    

Economic cost estimate:

Assume three skimming trips per day, 350 days per year.

Bulk cost: MCr 6600.

Mortgage yearly: 6600 / 240 * 12 = MCr 330
Maintenance year: 6600 * 0,1% = MCr 7
Life Support year: (384) * Cr 4000 * 12 = MCr 19
Salaries: ( 200 * 3000 ) * 12 * 600% = MCr 43 (assume 600% crew, since three shifts, extra weekend shifts, etc)
Fuel, year: 0 = MCr 0 we skim our own fuel.

Yearly operating expense: MCr 330 + 7 + 19 + 43 + 0 = MCr 400.
We have skimmed and processed 350 * 3 * 41500 = 43 575 000 dT fuel for an average cost of Cr 9,2 per dT refined fuel.
If we triple that cost to cover berthing, admin, and a healthy profit margin we can sell the refined fuel for Cr 30 per dT in orbit.

Conclusion: Major customers, like megacorps, pay much less for fuel than free traders.
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Re: Jump Train

Postby PsiTraveller » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:38 pm

If you made the ship crewed by robots, or a Drone you could cut the cost of salaries. Of course that makes it dangerous once Virus hits. :lol:

A robot would work 24 hours a day, minus time for maintenance.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Jump Train

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:24 am

Yes, indubitably.

But I like people to interact with in space, so I tend to downplay automation. My prejudice goes back to the little black books where ships had lots of crew and no robots.
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Re: Jump Train

Postby PsiTraveller » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:36 pm

I just put the robots suggestion in to offer a further cost savings to your economic analysis.
Plus robots are showcased in the new CSC book in Chapter 9. R2D2's piloting and astrogating.

And relying on robots offers a great chance to get them hacked and stolen. resulting in players being hired to go hunt the Cyber criminals down... or have the players be the ones doing the hacking. :twisted:
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Re: Jump Train

Postby phavoc » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:57 am

For the most part, robots don't play a huge role in the Traveller universe. Even in Star Wars, where robots (droids) are featured prominently, for the most part it seems they are relegated to very specific support roles, with a few notable exceptions.
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Re: Jump Train

Postby PsiTraveller » Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:42 am

The players in my Drinax campaign purchased some robots capable of doing engineering and piloting. They use them to transport captured ships back to their processing base. In some instances there have been human crew and in some just robots.
Who knows? If the CSC and any robot design sequence in the future means we may well see a surge in the use of Drones and robots in a game. One player wants the mapping Drone from the Alien movie, with a military attack option on it as well.
At a Megacredit a pop it may well be cheaper to hire mercenaries though. (I am reminded of the Longshanks quote about "Arrows cost money. Use up the Irish. The dead cost nothing."
of course I may have a skewed view of things, one of my players has actually typed up the mercenary contract for the Drinaxian Auxiliary Navy. He will have to redo the quote to take into account the cost of radiation treatment after fighting a ship armed with Particle weapons.
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Re: Jump Train

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:17 am

Since LBB8 was published in 1986(?) robots have been easy and cheap to implement in any Traveller campaign. Most source material simply don't talk about robots, even if they assume that people are everywhere in space, the military, and the civilian spheres.

I prefer to limit robots and automation to the background, and have sophonts run the Universe. You can of course do as you like.

As robots are rather simple-minded in MgT2 (before TL14) I would give all robot crews some hidden penalties, such as a higher chance of misjump or crashing during refuelling.
CSC, Robots, p2 wrote:Advanced: The robot has some fair degree of intelligence and can interact with both the environment and Travellers in a way that almost appears sentient. However, the robot will tend to be very literal in its responses and when confronted with an unexpected or unfamiliar situation, may become confused to the point of inaction.
Even a 1% chance of misjump would be generally unacceptable, but your players would perhaps not care.
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Re: Jump Train

Postby Sigtrygg » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:16 pm

Robots have been a thing in CT and the OTU since MWM's Robots series of articles in JTAS 2-4, they were a feature in Adventure 2 and popped up in AHL.

The Imperium of the CT OTU 1105+ has a cultural bias against using robots that are too 'intelligent', unlike the Hive, K'Kree and Zhodani.

So while Imperial ships may face off against drone fighters and the like they are unlikely to stop putting living beings in small craft...
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Re: Jump Train

Postby Nerhesi » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:17 am

Sigtrygg wrote:Robots have been a thing in CT and the OTU since MWM's Robots series of articles in JTAS 2-4, they were a feature in Adventure 2 and popped up in AHL.

The Imperium of the CT OTU 1105+ has a cultural bias against using robots that are too 'intelligent', unlike the Hive, K'Kree and Zhodani.

So while Imperial ships may face off against drone fighters and the like they are unlikely to stop putting living beings in small craft...
True. Although they do also shy away from combat small craft as a whole, and look down upon fighters, carriers and so on - and usually only reserve them for absolute necessity in defensive rolls. This is in-contrast to the fighter-heavy navies of the Aslan and Zhodani (and K'kree).
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Re: Jump Train

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:52 pm

The Megacorp doing this would likely build a space station at the 100D limit of each world and save the 2 days turn. Still need 1 day to on-load/off-load so you can make your Engines jump every 8 days instead of 9. That extra day reduces the number of ships needed to make I work
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phavoc
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Re: Jump Train

Postby phavoc » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:32 pm

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:The Megacorp doing this would likely build a space station at the 100D limit of each world and save the 2 days turn. Still need 1 day to on-load/off-load so you can make your Engines jump every 8 days instead of 9. That extra day reduces the number of ships needed to make I work
Most systems would benefit from having major stations/warehouses at the 100D limit to make for faster turn-arounds. But gaming wise, having the highport in orbit makes for better gaming.
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Re: Jump Train

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:16 am

I would imagine it would depend on volume of trade. HiTech HiPop worlds and major trade routes would have space stations at the 100 d limit for scheduled traffic. The far high port is perfect for the Jump Trains.

Free Traders would mostly frequent smaller ports with more primitive infrastructure.

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