[[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
msprange
Site Admin
Posts: 14436
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:25 pm

[[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Postby msprange » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:29 pm

Been putting a few things together, but I wanted to run this by you chaps before it went in...

I wasn't going to have movement maps.movement tracking beyond current Range Bands at all, but I started playing with this:

Image

Keeps things very simple... can you see any issues (should be fairly self-explanatory, though you may need to zoom in).
Matthew Sprange

Mongoose Publishing
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com
Nerhesi
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1525
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:46 pm

Re: [[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Postby Nerhesi » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:02 pm

A mad man.. Picasso... Didn't have your biscuit and coffee this morning Matt? A little too much confectionery has you hyped up? ;)

Ok so here is what I gather from what your picture entails:

A) A Radar Diagram to display fleet positions around a central point. That central point can be a planet, a convoy, a station, or really "nothing" but some point in space/
Feedback 1: This is fine - just need some mechanic if that point is in motion to ensure that all other elements have to spend "X thrust" to continue moving along if it does. Or perhaps - toss the idea that the point can be a point in motion at all.

B) I like the fact that thrust and range bands dont change. We just need a way to measure range bands based on the "squares" or "sections" of the radar chart now. Perhaps:
Same section: Adjacent/Close
1 Section away: Short
2 Sections away: Medium
etc.. I dont know - we'll have to put pen to paper to figure it out.
Can definitely plot missile salvos with ease on this

c) Regardless of what we do for FLEET combat Matthew, we will need to make sure that the system still works for 1on1s or 2on2s in the Mind's eye - aka abstract. I dont need a radar chart/map if I just want a tigress for a korikar or some zhodani battleship. I just want (as a player), a quick way to sum up how 200 bays fire together, and how to figure out damage.

I think if we head the way you're going now, we just need to make sure that this chart/map approach is for fleet on fleet, but we can still use rules for simply "larger 1 on 1s" - which is regular space combat, with just rules for firing like groups of 5 or 10 or 100 of the same weapons, apply armour, damage and crits :)
phavoc
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4239
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:13 pm

Re: [[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Postby phavoc » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:49 am

A good question to ask is... what constitute a "fleet"? Are we talking a dozen battle wagons, with a multitude of escorts? Or would the 'average' fleet battle be say 4 BB's, a dozen CA's, 20 DD's and then their supporting fleet train and scouting elements? That's really going to drive a lot of the map questions because we need to determine how much real estate they would need to take up.

And for each of the squares on the map, what scale does that represent? Should we have 'strategic' movement, where ships 4g and under can move 1 square? Would that sort of map allow for pincer movements? Not entirely clear on what means what, but I realize it's still all new and un-defined.
msprange
Site Admin
Posts: 14436
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:25 pm

Re: [[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Postby msprange » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:38 am

What is a fleet? Well, anything that the ref does not want to do 'normal' ship combat for :)

I _really_ don't want a system that can regularly handle a few dozen ships per side, primarily because an RPG should not need that - in the event of such a thing, the ref scripts the battle in the background, and just focusses on the players' actions. If you want a large scale fleet system, well, that is what a miniatures game is for (Traveller Ship Combat Box Set with plastic miniatures for $75, available... well, when we get a solid foundation for it :)).

So, this system needs to be abstracted to the nth degree, so everything is simple and any oddities are hand-waved away. It is _not_ a tactical simulator but a ref's tool for handling fights like (this springs to mind) the big mash up at the end of Beltstrike.

Targeting things in the same range band or another sector - how about we say they are equal to the range band you are at? So, if you are at Distant, any other target at Distant is also Distant.

Might that just work? After all, space is, like, very big, and gets bigger the further you move out on the range bands...
Matthew Sprange

Mongoose Publishing
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com
Nerhesi
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1525
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:46 pm

Re: [[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Postby Nerhesi » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:06 pm

So Matt - does fleet scale then cover 1-5 capitals ships vs a similar # of combatants?

I would like to make sure we can properly simulate what players are likely to be in (military adventure). Perhaps simulating the 1v2 part of larger fleet engagement (the miniature game)
steelbrok
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:13 pm

Re: [[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Postby steelbrok » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:11 am

msprange wrote:What is a fleet? Well, anything that the ref does not want to do 'normal' ship combat for :)

If you want a large scale fleet system, well, that is what a miniatures game is for (Traveller Ship Combat Box Set with plastic miniatures for $75, available... well, when we get a solid foundation for it :)).

.
Yes please
Wizard
Stoat
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:58 pm

Re: [[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Postby Wizard » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:41 pm

msprange wrote:If you want a large scale fleet system, well, that is what a miniatures game is for (Traveller Ship Combat Box Set with plastic miniatures for $75, available... well, when we get a solid foundation for it :)).
Yes that would be great, so when's the kickstarter? :D
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 2816
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: [[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:06 pm

Large scale combat needs to be simpler. Keep it one dimensional, but allow a few ships/squadrons on each side, such as fighters closing in on the enemy, battleships in the middle, and missile ships keeping maximum range to the enemy.
GhengisRexx
Weasel
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: [[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Postby GhengisRexx » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:33 am

I whipped this up the other day. Planning to use it in my game on Roll20. I will put ships and incoming missiles and torps on the radar, with each concentric circle corresponding to a range band.

Radar grid - link to google doc

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1p-z ... sp=sharing
GhengisRexx
Weasel
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: [[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Postby GhengisRexx » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:01 am

For those who really, really want a tactical ship simulator for Traveller, (and yes I know this is outside the scope of the RPG, but people will want it anyways) it might be pretty easy to convert the range bands to hexes, and use the old Triplanetary rules for movement and acceleration. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3637/triplanetary
For big engagements, you could put groups of ships into flotillas and squadrons that all move together.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 2816
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: [[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:16 pm

We have way to many rolls for large warships. Apart from missile salvoes each mount or hardpoint rolls a roll (Attack or PD) every round. No one will roll a few thousand times every round for a single battleship.

We need a salvo system, for all weapon systems, that scales from 1 kt ships to 1 Mt ships, that probably means % based hits.

We need to simplify defences (PD, screens) to something like one roll per salvo. If you defend with 1000 PD turrets either take the average or roll once and multiply by the number of PD turrets (very different probability function). Screens can perhaps be turned into a fixed factor, e.g. absorbes # of screens * 5 * Gunner skill points of damage, if we assign the screens to attacks before salvo attack roll the outcome is still not certain.

Fighters needs to be averaged or organised into flights.

The generic system of roll once use the same outcome for all identical rolls will give us very wild results, but that is perhaps desirable. One lucky roll can give someone a very real advantage. One lucky PD roll can wipe out an entire missile salvo. The person who rolls a 2 or 12 for all PD will feel it...
Chas
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 692
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:30 pm

Re: [[[Playtest Focus]]] Fleet Scale Battles

Postby Chas » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:32 pm

The barrage rules and the limited crew numbers are still two parts of the rules that are to be announced.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests