Gender Neutrality

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MrSpaceman
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Gender Neutrality

Postby MrSpaceman » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:36 pm

My first comment on the beta, so hello to everyone.

I've just been reading through the PDF of the Core PDF and a bit of High & Dry, too. I like a lot of what I'm seeing.

One thing which I have noticed, it is a thing which bugs me about a lot of writing (especially games where characters are referred to a lot) is the use of male pronouns for a generic character. This is first encountered in the "Traveller Creation" chapter, but I think it is probably throughout the PDF.

It is easy enough to make all generic references to people gender neutral by using an appropriate pronoun. There really isn't any reason for the use of "he" or "she" unless the subject is defined in gender (i.e. a specific example of a character is, in fact, a male...or female...).

For example, the second paragraph in "Traveller Creation" could (nay should!) read:

When you have finished this process, you will be ready for play with a Traveller who has history and a full career (successful or otherwise) behind them. They will now be ready for the next phase of their life, one full of excitement and adventure...

I hope that Mongoose can cater for this, as a modern publishing company. I'd hate to have to translate pronouns in my head, after given the opportunity to influence this to be changed.
msprange
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby msprange » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:09 pm

Have made the suggested change above.

I am a bit in two minds about this overall - I have no objection to going gender neutral, but sometimes sentence structure is just a little cleaner if you plump for one or the other. However, happy to look at any suggestions here.
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MrSpaceman
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby MrSpaceman » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:52 pm

That's great, thanks for giving this some consideration. :mrgreen:

The good thing about the suitability of the current material to use true genders, is that there are examples where the players, Travellers and characters have been given defined identities, so that points can be fortified with gender specific pronouns.

Additionally, there's no information loss when using they, their, them, etc., and when the sentence structure gets muddy, the sentence can be re-formed to allow a finer arc (if you will). There's also no shame in using an article and a noun (e.g. him -> them -> the Traveller).

Communication is a fine art indeed! :wink:
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby Scratches » Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:55 am

I'm fine with he, she or neutral but please don't use "he or she" or change the gender in mid-sentence or mid-paragraph. Changing it mid-stream makes it difficult to determine if the rules are about the same person.
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby Garran » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:30 pm

Sticking to a single pronoun definitely makes it easier to read. Switching to a different pronoun is okay if the text is clearly talking about a specific character, but bouncing back and forth on a general basis is awkward at best and confusing at worst.

A gender-neutral pronoun is fine ("they" "the traveler", etc), as long as it's simple.
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby Jame Rowe » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:25 pm

Scratches wrote:I'm fine with he, she or neutral but please don't use "he or she" or change the gender in mid-sentence or mid-paragraph. Changing it mid-stream makes it difficult to determine if the rules are about the same person.
I'd rather the document use either "he" or "she" instead of "they." Only because "he" and "she" are each singular, where "they" is plural. You'd have to change everything to plural from singular, and that may not be the best option.
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MrSpaceman
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby MrSpaceman » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:15 pm

'They'/'them'/'their' aren't necessarily plural; although they can be, context removes ambiguity.

e.g. As the Traveller enters the room, they survey their surroundings; the player fails their roll, so nothing seems out of the ordinary to them.

I think it's pretty clear who's who, what's what and without including gender unnecessarily. :wink:
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby MrSpaceman » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:24 pm

msprange wrote:Have made the suggested change above.

I am a bit in two minds about this overall - I have no objection to going gender neutral, but sometimes sentence structure is just a little cleaner if you plump for one or the other. However, happy to look at any suggestions here.
I'm just wondering whether you'd like the whole text surveyed for changes, and for those changes to be noted here, like the typos thread? I have done a little in this manner already, to see what changes were there.

I started with the Traveller Creation chapter and quickly found that it was mostly a matter of "him" -> "them", "he" -> "they", "his" -> "their". I reckon there was probably a few verb conjugations to alter, too, I can't exactly remember as I did this a couple of weeks ago on a train. I can share what I found for your interest. (I'll do it a little later when I've got the pad I did it with.)

Would this be a useful thing to do? If so, I'll carry on. I can see that it would make your life easier as it would be a search-replace job based on the information already compiled. The only thing would be proof-reading afterwards, but isn't that what these beta-testers are for? :wink:

It might be useful to have the text in a more easily editable format; I can copy-paste the text from the PDF to a word processor, but maybe you can provide the source text?

If you're not interested, or feel you can do this task yourselves, I'll save my time for something else.
MrSpaceman
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby MrSpaceman » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:00 pm

OK I've done a sweep of chapter 2 in the September Revision of the Core PDF and noted places where a generic Traveller is discussed, or a generic NPC and the pronouns (&c) are specified as male.

There were a couple of places that do not warrant changing, due to them being specific examples: where a named Traveller was mentioned (e.g. Morn the barbarian at the top of page 49) and also where an unnamed Traveller was mentioned (e.g. the marine who gets to keep his combat armour in first para of Benefits section on p44).

As I say, if you want I can do more. I also found some other typos, and game design issues, but I'll put them in other threads.

Otherwise, here they are:
------------------------------------

Chapter Two Traveller Creation (pp 7-55 incl.)

p7 Initial section
Para 2
"When you have finished this process, you will be ready for play with a Traveller who has history and a full career (successful or otherwise) behind him. They will now be ready for the next phase of his life, one full of excitement and adventure..."
"When you have finished this process, you will be ready for play with a Traveller who has history and a full career (successful or otherwise) behind them. They will now be ready for the next phase of their life, one full of excitement and adventure..."

p7 Creation Summary
Para 1 Sentence 1
"A Traveller’s abilities and skills are determined by his training and past experience."
"A Traveller’s abilities and skills are determined by their training and past experience."

p8 Social Standing and Nobility
Second Bullet Point - Sentence 2
"Perhaps he will someday regain his seat, or maybe he will spend the rest of his life trying to escape those who removed him."
"Perhaps they will someday regain their seat, or maybe they will spend the rest of their life trying to escape those who removed them."

p9 Skills
Para 1 Sentence 2
"A Traveller’s proficiency in any skill is denoted by his level in that skill."
"A Traveller’s proficiency in any skill is denoted by their level in that skill."

p9 Careers
Para 1 Sentence 1
"Next, your Traveller engages in one or more career terms, representing his previous experiences and adventures before the start of the campaign."
"Next, your Traveller engages in one or more career terms, representing their previous experiences and adventures before the start of the campaign."

p14 Pre-Career Education
Para 5
"After successful graduation, a Traveller may attempt to enter a career of their choice as normal, though he may have earned bonuses or automatic entry to certain careers, as listed under graduation benefits."
"After successful graduation, a Traveller may attempt to enter a career of their choice as normal, though they may have earned bonuses or automatic entry to certain careers, as listed under graduation benefits."

P17 Drifters and the Draft
Para 1 Last sentence
"A Traveller may only enter the Draft once in his lifetime."
"A Traveller may only enter the Draft once in their lifetime."

P18 Changing Careers
Para 2 sentence 2
"If he fails, he must submit to the draft (if he has not done already done so earlier in life) or become a Drifter"
"If they fail, they must submit to the Draft (if they have not already done so done so earlier in life) or become a Drifter", note non-pronoun typo "Draft"

P18 Changing Assignments
Para 1
[...]"focussing on another aspect of his existing career by changing his assignment."
[...]"focussing on another aspect of their existing career by changing their assignment."

Para 2 Sentence 2
[...]"the same assignment he had before without penalty."
[...]"the same assignment they had before without penalty."

Para 2 Last sentence
[...]"retaining his rank."
[...]"retaining their rank."

Contacts,Allies,Rivals and Enemies
Rivals Para
"These are people who hate or oppose the Traveller, and will attempt to interfere or harass him."
"These are people who hate or oppose the Traveller, and will attempt to interfere or harass them."

p21 Agent Events Table [sic]
"Either increase Investigate by one level or DM+4 to an Advancement roll thanks to his aid."
"Either increase Investigate by one level or DM+4 to an Advancement roll thanks to their aid."

p23 Army Mishaps Table
Mishap 2 Sentence 2
"Gain him as an Enemy as he has you removed from the service."
"Gain them as an Enemy as they have you removed from the service."

Mishap 4 Sentence 2
"You can join his ring and gain him as an Ally"
"You either join their crime ring and gain the officer as an Ally"

Mishap 5 Sentence 2
"Gain that officer as a Rival as he drives you out of the service."
"Gain that officer as a Rival as they drive you out of the service."

p23 Army Events Table [sic]
Event 11 Sentence 2
"Either gain Tactics (military) 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to his aid."
"Either gain Tactics (military) 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to their aid."

p25 Citizen Events
Event 11 Sentence 2
"Either gain Diplomat 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to his aid."
"Either gain Diplomat 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to their aid."

p23 Army Mishaps Table
Mishap 2 Sentence 2
"Gain him as an Enemy as he has you removed from the service."
"Gain them as an Enemy as they have you removed from the service."

Mishap 4 Sentence 2
"You can join his ring and gain him as an Ally"
"You either join their crime ring and gain the officer as an Ally"

Mishap 5 Sentence 2
"Gain that officer as a Rival as he drives you out of the service."
"Gain that officer as a Rival as they drive you out of the service."

p23 Army Events Table [sic]
Event 11 Sentence 2
"Either gain Tactics (military) 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to his aid."
"Either gain Tactics (military) 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to their aid."

p25 Citizen Events
Event 11 Sentence 2
"Either gain Diplomat 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to his aid."
"Either gain Diplomat 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to their aid."

p31 Marines Events
Event 9 Sentences 2 & 3
"If you report your commanding officer for his failure then you gain DM+2 to your next Advancement roll and gain the officer as an Enemy. If you say nothing and protect him, gain him as an Ally."
"If you report your commanding officer for their failure then you gain DM+2 to your next Advancement roll and gain the officer as an Enemy. If you say nothing and protect the officer, gain them as an Ally."

Event 11 Sentence 2
"Either gain Tactics 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to his aid."
"Either gain Tactics 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to their aid."

p33 Merchant Events
Event 11 Sentence 2
"Gain an Ally and either gain a level in Carouse or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to his aid."
"Gain an Ally and either gain a level in Carouse or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to their aid."

p35 Navy Mishaps
Mishap 5 Sentence 2
"Gain that character as a Rival, as he forces you out of the Navy."
"Gain that character as a Rival, as they force you out of the Navy."

p35 Navy Events
Event 11 Sentence 2
"Your commanding officer takes an interest in your career. Either gain Tactics (naval) 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to his aid."
"Your commanding officer takes an interest in your career. Either gain Tactics (naval) 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to their aid."

p37 Noble Events
Event 11 Sentence 2
"Either gain one level of Leadership or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to his aid."
"Either gain one level of Leadership or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to their aid."

p39 Rogue Events
Event 6 Last Sentence
"If you refuse, gain him as an Ally."
"If you refuse, gain him as an Ally."

Event 11 Sentence 2
"Either gain Tactics (military) 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to his aid."
"Either gain Tactics (military) 1 or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to their aid."

p41 Scholar Events
Event 11 Sentence 2
"Either increase Science by one level or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to his aid."
"Either increase Science by one level or DM+4 to your next Advancement roll thanks to their aid."

p44 Cash Benefits
Para 2 Sentence 1
"If the Traveller has any money left, he may purchase personal equipment worth up to Cr2000 before he starts adventuring."
"If the Traveller has any money left, they may purchase personal equipment worth up to Cr2000 before they start adventuring."

p46 Ships with Benefits
Para 2 Last Sentence
"(he might not be in possession of the ship, but it is somewhere out there in the galaxy, earning dividends for those who invested in it, possibly many years ago)."
"(although they are not in possession of the ship, it is somewhere out there in the galaxy, earning dividends for those who invested in it, possibly many years ago)."

p46 Ageing & Injuries
Para 2 Sentence 2
"A Traveller must keep track of how much money he spends on anagathics and medical care while he is engaged in a career"
"A Traveller must keep track of how much money they spend on anagathics and medical care while they are engaged in a career"

p47 Ageing
Ageing Crisis Section
Para 1 Sentence 2
"The Traveller dies unless he pays 1D x Cr10000 for medical care, which will bring any characteristics back up to 1."
"The Traveller dies unless they pay 1D x Cr10000 for medical care, which will bring any characteristics back up to 1."

Anagathics
Para 3 Last Sentence
"If the Traveller cannot pay these bills, he goes into debt – see Medical Debt on page 49."
"If the Traveller cannot pay these bills, they go into debt – see Medical Debt on page 49."

Ageing and Anagathics During Play
Para 1 Sentence 2
"Travellers may also seek out anagathic drugs during a campaign – in fact, if a Traveller started using anagathics during creation, he may be driven to seek them out as a matter of necessity, or be faced with suddenly ageing rapidly."
"Travellers may also seek out anagathic drugs during a campaign – in fact, if a Traveller started using anagathics during creation, they may be driven to seek them out as a matter of necessity, or be faced with suddenly ageing rapidly."

p49 Why Are You Travelling?
Para 1 Sentence 1
"The final step of creation is to choose your Traveller’s initial goal – why is he travelling?"
"The final step of creation is to choose your Traveller’s initial goal – why are they travelling?"

Para 1 Sentences 3 & 4
"Running from his past? At this stage of creation, you have guided your Traveller from his teenage years to the present day. Who is he?"
"Running from their past? At this stage of creation, you have guided your Traveller from their teenage years to the present day. Who are they?"

Para 2 All
"How has his past shaped his beliefs? What cause is he willing to fight for? Does he have any odd tics or habits? What does he want?"
"How has their past shaped their beliefs? What cause are they willing to fight for? Do they have any odd tics or habits? What does they want?"

p51 Post Career Education
Para 1 All
"Once a Traveller leaves his career and begins to wander the stars, he will have every opportunity for adventure and excitement. All these possibilities may leave the Traveller thinking he is not adequately prepared for this life and the idea of continuing his education may come to mind."
"Once a Traveller leaves their career and begins to wander the stars, they will have every opportunity for adventure and excitement. All these possibilities may leave the Traveller thinking that they are not adequately prepared for this life and the idea of continuing his education may come to mind."

p53 Leaving the Prisoner Career
Para 1 Sentence 1
"A Traveller may not normally leave or be ejected from this career – not even mishaps will force him to leave."
"A Traveller may not normally leave or be ejected from this career – not even mishaps will force them to leave."

Para 1 Sentence 2
"Instead, he has a value called a Parole Threshold."
"Instead, the Traveller has a value called a Parole Threshold."

Para 1 Sentence 3
"At the end of each term in the prisoner career, if the Traveller’s Advancement roll is greater than his Parole Threshold, it means his prison sentence has come to an end and he leaves this career."
"At the end of each term in the prisoner career, if the Traveller’s Advancement roll is greater than their Parole Threshold, it means the prison sentence has come to an end and they leave this career."

Para 1 Last Sentence
"Otherwise, he may not leave this career and must continue in it for another term."
"Otherwise, they may not leave this career and must continue in it for another term."

p55 Prisoner Events
Event 7 Prison Event 2 Sentence 2
"You make friends with another inmate; gain him as a Contact."
"You make friends with another inmate; gain a Contact."
-Daniel-
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby -Daniel- » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:28 am

Wow, that is a lot of edits. 8)

I do have a couple questions though....
MrSpaceman wrote: Mishap 4 Sentence 2
"You can join his ring and gain him as an Ally"
"You either join their crime ring and gain the officer as an Ally"
Why add the either? Why not leave it as "can"? Seems to change the meaning by adding the either.

MrSpaceman wrote: Mishap 4 Sentence 2
"You can join his ring and gain him as an Ally"
"You either join their crime ring and gain the officer as an Ally"
Again, why add the either? Why not leave it as "can"? Seems to change the meaning by adding the either.

MrSpaceman wrote: p39 Rogue Events
Event 6 Last Sentence
"If you refuse, gain him as an Ally."
"If you refuse, gain him as an Ally."
Is the second one meant to change to "If you refuse, gain them as an Ally" ?

MrSpaceman wrote: p46 Ships with Benefits
Para 2 Last Sentence
"(he might not be in possession of the ship, but it is somewhere out there in the galaxy, earning dividends for those who invested in it, possibly many years ago)."
"(although they are not in possession of the ship, it is somewhere out there in the galaxy, earning dividends for those who invested in it, possibly many years ago)."
Why the shift in meaning? Why not just "(they might not be in possession.... ? I mean they could be in possession of the ship as well, right? I do not believe this was meant to say they do not have possession.

MrSpaceman wrote:Para 2 All
"How has his past shaped his beliefs? What cause is he willing to fight for? Does he have any odd tics or habits? What does he want?"
"How has their past shaped their beliefs? What cause are they willing to fight for? Do they have any odd tics or habits? What does they want?"
Shouldn't that be "What do they want? "
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby Belisknar » Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:42 am

MrSpaceman wrote:One thing which I have noticed, it is a thing which bugs me about a lot of writing (especially games where characters are referred to a lot) is the use of male pronouns for a generic character. This is first encountered in the "Traveller Creation" chapter, but I think it is probably throughout the PDF.

It is easy enough to make all generic references to people gender neutral by using an appropriate pronoun. There really isn't any reason for the use of "he" or "she" unless the subject is defined in gender (i.e. a specific example of a character is, in fact, a male...or female...).
"He" is the appropriate pronoun. In the English language the gender neutral pronoun is in fact "He".

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/he

"That person"

I know where you're coming from because years ago I had the same argument with lecturers in University about Gender Neutrality in assignments for a Social Work Degree. If there was a different gender neutral pronoun in English that could be used, I'd be absolutely with you about this. But as it stands all this will do is take time away from the work. The editors and playtesters have better things to do than be looking for pronouns to change... like finding rule inconsistencies, equipment errors and mechanics that slow down ore break the flow of play
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby MrSpaceman » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:27 am

Sorry, Belisknar? :(

Firstly, you say "If there was a different gender neutral pronoun in English that could be used, I'd be absolutely with you about this.", but there is and you are not. :?

Secondly, I think the usage in the online dictionary you've cited is fair in some cases, but you have only given one side of the story. The example is from the Bible, for goodness' sake! It not the most modern of texts. I believe there was an Act of Parliament which allowed 'he' to be used as the gender neutral pronoun (I presume for legal reasons). This act was passed in 1850. I can imagine the definition in the MW dictionary would also cover idiomatic phrases like "he who dares wins" - this should be translated to the general rather than only males, but the saying is old and is trapped in amber. :roll:

I don't really want to argue with naysayers. Especially ones who can see that I'm serious about contributing to the project and still want to say "no, you're wrong". If you are interested have a look at "they" in the dictionary. Try this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they :wink:
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby msprange » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:51 am

-Daniel- wrote:Wow, that is a lot of edits. 8)
And all done in the book!
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby MrSpaceman » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:18 am

msprange wrote:And all done in the book!
Very cool 8) I'll do more then! :D

However, -Daniel- is right, there were a couple of errors on my part. Apart from these, other comments made regarding additional changes to the sentences might be relevant, too. Although, I chose words to try not to change the overall meaning of the text, in any of the modifications, they would probably stand on their own with only the simple "he" -> "they", &c., changes (plus verb conjugation).

Anyway, the entries flagged in error should have been:

p39 Rogue Events
Event 6 Last Sentence
"If you refuse, gain him as an Ally."
"If you refuse, gain them as an Ally."

Para 2 All
"How has his past shaped his beliefs? What cause is he willing to fight for? Does he have any odd tics or habits? What does he want?"
"How has their past shaped their beliefs? What cause are they willing to fight for? Do they have any odd tics or habits? What do they want?"

[or correction from the modification made already:
Para 2 Last Sentence
"What does they want?"
"What do they want?"]

I'll have a crack at another section at the weekend. :wink:
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby msprange » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:24 pm

MrSpaceman wrote: However, -Daniel- is right, there were a couple of errors on my part.
Don't worry, they all get double-checked before being entered into the actual book :)
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Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby MrSpaceman » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:11 pm

Here's the gender related changes for the Skills & Tasks chapter. In some cases, the changes are more than just pronouns; have a look and let me know what you think of these. Any suggestions for alternative changes are welcome, I suspect. Hopefully not too many errors on my part.

p56 Skills & Tasks
Para 1
"Every Traveller will acquire a variety of skills during creation that will indicate the tasks he is good at performing."
"Every Traveller will acquire a variety of skills during creation that will indicate the tasks they are good at performing."

Para 2
"If a Traveller has no level in a skill at all (Skill -), then he is untrained and will suffer DM-3 when trying to use that skill."
"If a Traveller has no level in a skill at all (Skill -), then they are untrained and will suffer DM-3 when trying to use that skill."

Para 3
"If a Traveller has zero level in a skill (Skill 0), then he is competent in using that skill, but probably has had little experience in actually using it. He does not get any bonus from his skill ranks when using that skill from his rank, but at least avoids the penalty for being untrained."
"If a Traveller has zero level in a skill (Skill 0), then they are competent in using that skill, but probably have had little experience in actually using it. They do not get any bonus from their skill ranks when using that skill, but at least avoids the penalty for being untrained."
NB., Additional typo here - duplicate of "from their [skill] rank[s]"

Para 4 - Sentence 1
"If a Traveller has one or more levels in a skill (Skill 1, Skill 2, and so on etc.) then he is trained in that skill."
"If a Traveller has one or more levels in a skill (Skill 1, Skill 2, and so on etc.) then they are trained in that skill."

Para 4 - Last Sentence
"A Traveller with level 4 or 5 is probably both well-respected and well-known in his field."
"A Traveller with level 4 or 5 is probably both well-respected and well-known in the field."
NB., Could be "their", but why not "the"?

Para 5 - Last Sentence
"A Traveller with Medic 4 or 5 would be at least world-renowned, and may well be known across several star systems for his expertise."
"A Traveller with Medic 4 or 5 would be at least world-renowned, and may well be known across several star systems for their expertise."

p 56 Specialities
Para 1 - Sentence 2
"A Traveller picks a speciality when he gains level 1 in a skill that has two or more specialities."
"A Traveller picks a speciality when they gain level 1 in a skill that has two or more specialities."

Para 2 - Sentence 1 & 2
"For example, a Traveller might have Engineer 0, allowing him to make Engineer skill checks without the unskilled penalty. He might then gain a level in Engineer, at which point he would need to choose a speciality."
"For example, a Traveller might have Engineer 0, allowing them to make Engineer skill checks without the unskilled penalty. They might then gain a level in Engineer, at which point they would need to choose a speciality."

Para 3 - All
"If he choose jump drives, he would record this on his character sheet as Engineer (jump drive) 1. He would then make all Engineer checks involving jump drives at DM+1, but would still make all other Engineer checks at DM+0 (in other words, with no penalty). A Traveller can have multiple specialities in a skill – he might have Engineer (jump drive) 1 and Engineer (power plant) 2. He would therefore make checks related to jump drives with DM+1, checks related to power plants with DM+2, and all other Engineer checks with DM+0."
"If they choose jump drives, they would record this on their character sheet as Engineer (jump drive) 1. They would then make all Engineer checks involving jump drives at DM+1, but would still make all other Engineer checks at DM+0 (in other words, with no penalty). A Traveller can have multiple specialities in a skill – they might have Engineer (jump drive) 1 and Engineer (power plant) 2. They would therefore make checks related to jump drives with DM+1, checks related to power plants with DM+2, and all other Engineer checks with DM+0."

p56 Characteristic Checks
Para 1 - Sentence 1
"The Traveller adds his characteristic DM."
"The Traveller adds their characteristic DM."

Para 1 - Bullet 1
"When forcing open a sealed door on a derelict ship, a Traveller would use his STR Dice Modifier."
"When forcing open a sealed door on a derelict ship, a Traveller would use their STR Dice Modifier."

Para 1 - Bullet 2
"When balancing on a narrow beam, a Traveller would use his DEX Dice Modifier."
"When balancing on a narrow beam, a Traveller would use their DEX Dice Modifier."

Para 1 - Bullet 3
"When trying to endure a long trek through the desert, a Traveller would use his END Dice Modifier."
"When trying to endure a long trek through the desert, a Traveller would use their END Dice Modifier."

Para 1 - Bullet 4
"When trying to decipher an alien puzzle-box, a Traveller uses his INT Dice Modifier."
"When trying to decipher an alien puzzle-box, a Traveller uses their INT Dice Modifier."

Para 1 - Bullet 5
"When attempting to remember some trivia or piece of common knowledge, a Traveller uses his EDU Modifier."
"When attempting to remember some trivia or piece of common knowledge, a Traveller uses their EDU Modifier."

(p57) Para 1 - Bullet 6
"When trying to impress a guard with his wealth or position, a Traveller uses his SOC Dice Modifier."
"When trying to impress a guard with their wealth or position, a Traveller uses their SOC Dice Modifier."

p57 Skills Checks
Para 1 - Sentence 1
"For a skill check, the Traveller adds both their skill level and an appropriate characteristic DM."
"For a skill check, the Traveller adds both his skill level and an appropriate characteristic DM."

Para 2 (after bullets)
"If a Traveller does not have any levels in a skill used in a check, he suffers DM-3 on the check for being unskilled."
"If a Traveller does not have any levels in a skill used in a check, they suffer DM-3 on the check for being unskilled."

p58 Task Difficulties
Para 1 - Sentence 2
"When the referee decides a task should be either easier or harder, he may change the target number needed for the check."
"When the referee decides a task should be either easier or harder, they may change the target number needed for the check."

p59 Boon And Bane
Para 2 - All
"If a Traveller has help, such as good tools, competent aids or other beneficial circumstances, he receives a Boon. This means he rolls an extra dice during a check and discards the lowest."
"If a Traveller has help, such as good tools, competent aids or other beneficial circumstances, they receive a Boon. This means they roll an extra dice during a check and discards the lowest."

Para 3 - All
"If a Traveller is hindered in a check, such as with poor tools, a dimly lit environment or other negative circumstances, he receives a Bane. This means he rolls an extra dice during a check and discards the highest."
"If a Traveller is hindered in a check, such as with poor tools, a dimly lit environment or other negative circumstances, they receive a Bane. This means they roll an extra dice during a check and discards the highest."

Para 4 - Last 2 Sentences
"If he receives both a Boon and a Bane for the same check, they will cancel out and he will roll no extra dice. At the same time, if he receives multiple Boons or Banes, he will only be subject to one."
"If the Traveller receives both a Boon and a Bane for the same check, they will cancel out and no extra dice will be rolled. At the same time, if multiple Boons or Banes are received, the Traveller will only be subject to one."
Re-wording slightly to avoid "they" referring to both Traveller and boon/bane dice

p59 Effect
Para 1 - Last 2 Sentences
[...]"he succeeds. If it is less, he fails."
[...]"they succeed. If it is less, they fail."

Para 2 - All
"For example, if a Traveller rolls a 4 and a 3 for an Average (8+) check, then applies DM+3 for a total of 10, his Effect is (10 – 8) 2."
"For example, if a Traveller rolls a 4 and a 3 for an Average (8+) check, then applies DM+3 for a total of 10, their Effect is (10 – 8) 2."

p59 Effect Results Table
Marginal Failure - Sentences 1 & 2
"The Traveller has almost, almost succeeded, and the referee may permit him to scrape a success if he takes a significant consequence. A Traveller trying to jump across a chasm hangs onto the far side by his fingernails but can only pull himself up if he drops his backpack."
"The Traveller has almost, almost succeeded, and the referee may permit them to scrape a success if they take a significant consequence. A Traveller trying to jump across a chasm hangs onto the far side by their fingernails but can only pull themself up if they drop their backpack."

Marginal Failure - Sentence 4
"A Traveller hacking a computer gets in but the security programs can trace his location."
"A Traveller hacking a computer gets in but the security programs can trace their location."

Marginal Success - All
"The Traveller barely succeeds at the task, and may have to accept a condition on his success. He fixes the engine but it will overheat. He finds a buyer for the goods but the buyer is an untrustworthy criminal."
"The Traveller barely succeeds at the task, and may have to accept a condition on their success. They fix the engine but it will overheat. They find a buyer for the goods but the buyer is an untrustworthy criminal."

p60 - Timeframes
Para 2 - Sentence 2
"The referee can use these examples for his own checks and actions."
"The referee can use these examples for their own checks and actions."

p61 - Difficult, Boon/Bane and DMs
Difficulty Para - Sentence 1
"Before any other factors are taken into account, the referee should set the difficulty of a task, based on how hard he believes the task should be without any exterior effects."
"Before any other factors are taken into account, the referee should set the difficulty of a task, based on how hard they believe the task should be without any exterior effects."

p62
Specialities Para
"If the skill has several specialities, they are listed here. When a Traveller reaches level 1 in a skill, they must take a speciality in that skill. When they gain another level in the skill, they may increase that speciality to level 2, or take a different speciality."

p63
Athletics - Dexterity - Climbing - Sentence 2
"So long as he succeeds, the Traveller’s Effect is usually irrelevant unless he is trying to do something while climbing, in which case the climbing is part of a task chain or multiple action."
"So long as they succeed, the Traveller’s Effect is usually irrelevant unless they are trying to do something while climbing, in which case the climbing is part of a task chain or multiple action."

Athletics - Dexterity - Sprinting - Sentence 2 & 3
"If the Traveller does nothing but sprint flat out he can cover 24 + Effect metres with every check. Avoiding obstacles while sprinting requires another Athletics (dexterity) check (Difficult, because he is performing a multiple action)."
"If the Traveller does nothing but sprint flat out they can cover 24 + Effect metres with every check. Avoiding obstacles while sprinting requires another Athletics (dexterity) check (Difficult, because they are performing a multiple action)."

Deception - Para 1 - Sentence 1
"Deception allows a Traveller to lie fluently, disguise himself" [...]
"Deception allows a Traveller to lie fluently, disguise themself" [...]

Gambler - Para 1 - Sentence 2
"Gambler increases the rewards from Benefit Rolls, giving the Traveller DM+1 to his cash rolls if he has Gambler 1 or better."
"Gambler increases the rewards from Benefit Rolls, giving the Traveller DM+1 to their cash rolls if they have Gambler 1 or better."

Jack-of-All-Trades - Para 1 - Sentence 2
"For example, if a Traveller does not have the Pilot skill, he suffers DM-3 to all Pilot checks."
"For example, if a Traveller does not have the Pilot skill, they suffer DM-3 to all Pilot checks."

p69 - Streetwise - Para 1 - Sentence 2 & 3
"On his homeworld and in related systems, he knows criminal contacts and fixers. On other worlds, he can quickly intuit power structures and can fit into local underworlds."
"On their own homeworld and in related systems, they will know criminal contacts and fixers. On other worlds, they can quickly intuit power structures and can fit into local underworlds."
Added more than just straight changes; seemed good for the flow.

Survival - Para 1 - Sentence 2
"He can recognise plants and animals of his homeworld and related planets, and can pick up on common clues and traits even on unfamiliar worlds."
"They can recognise plants and animals of their homeworld and related planets, and can pick up on common clues and traits even on unfamiliar worlds."

Vacc Suit - Para 1 - Sentence 3
"If the Traveller does not have the requisite Vacc Suit skill for the suit he is wearing, he suffers DM-2 to all skill checks made while wearing a suit for each missing level."
"If the Traveller does not have the requisite Vacc Suit skill for the suit they are wearing, they suffer DM-2 to all skill checks made while wearing a suit for each missing level."

---

There was an exception case in this chapter, which is a specific example of an unnamed 'client'. Although the 'client' is unnamed they could be male or female. Just a suggestion, but this could be made to be female, just for the hell of it. All other such examples so far have been male (the marine in the Traveller Creation chapter - see previous discussion earlier in the week - however, this marine could be female instead?).
p58 Task Difficulties - Difficult Para - Sentence 2
"Examples might be making an accurate shot in the middle of a ferocious storm, defending a client in court when he is clearly guilty"[...]
"Examples might be making an accurate shot in the middle of a ferocious storm, defending a client in court when she is clearly guilty"[...]
MrSpaceman
Weasel
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:09 am

Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby MrSpaceman » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:22 pm

-Daniel- wrote:Wow, that is a lot of edits. 8)
I think there looks like more than I actually did because I copy-pasted by mistake (wrist on laptop touchpad issue...)
-Daniel- wrote: I do have a couple questions though....
8) Fire away!
-Daniel- wrote:
MrSpaceman wrote: Mishap 4 Sentence 2
"You can join his ring and gain him as an Ally"
"You either join their crime ring and gain the officer as an Ally"
Why add the either? Why not leave it as "can"? Seems to change the meaning by adding the either.
MrSpaceman wrote: Mishap 4 Sentence 2
"You can join his ring and gain him as an Ally"
"You either join their crime ring and gain the officer as an Ally"
Again, why add the either? Why not leave it as "can"? Seems to change the meaning by adding the either.
This is the copied text, I think. Note, this is not the complete sentence, there is a second part, I just didn't add "[...]" to denote this (apologies). You're right though, it probably doesn't need to have the "can" -> "either" change; I just though that it just flowed better when I typed it.
-Daniel- wrote:
MrSpaceman wrote: p39 Rogue Events
Event 6 Last Sentence
"If you refuse, gain him as an Ally."
"If you refuse, gain him as an Ally."
Is the second one meant to change to "If you refuse, gain them as an Ally" ?
Yep, I missed the actual change.
-Daniel- wrote:
MrSpaceman wrote: p46 Ships with Benefits
Para 2 Last Sentence
"(he might not be in possession of the ship, but it is somewhere out there in the galaxy, earning dividends for those who invested in it, possibly many years ago)."
"(although they are not in possession of the ship, it is somewhere out there in the galaxy, earning dividends for those who invested in it, possibly many years ago)."
Why the shift in meaning? Why not just "(they might not be in possession.... ? I mean they could be in possession of the ship as well, right? I do not believe this was meant to say they do not have possession.
Again, just that I thought it flowed better, but again you might be right: a simple "he" -> "they" doesn't create a bad sentence.
-Daniel- wrote:
MrSpaceman wrote:Para 2 All
"How has his past shaped his beliefs? What cause is he willing to fight for? Does he have any odd tics or habits? What does he want?"
"How has their past shaped their beliefs? What cause are they willing to fight for? Do they have any odd tics or habits? What does they want?"
Shouldn't that be "What do they want? "
Again, yep! Thanks for spotting this.

Thanks, -Daniel- for looking over these edits. It's nice to have some support on a task like this, where little errors can creep in.

Also, although the main part of this is pretty objective (simply convert male -> neutral) some stuff is a little subjective, so it's good to hear another opinion. I guess that the book editors want to know what people think, especially if there's a danger of drastically changing the meaning of a passage inadvertently.
Kaelic
Mongoose
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:47 pm

Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby Kaelic » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:52 am

I personally prefer how the World of Darkness books just mix it up between male and female, seems encouraging! However, 'he' is the gender neutral in English as is so there was nothing wrong to begin with. No matter, the changes don't seem so bad.
MrSpaceman
Weasel
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:09 am

Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby MrSpaceman » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:32 pm

Sorry for not continuing this quest to make the Traveller core book truly gender neutral, I was moving house. I have noticed that the recent update is touted to be the last update, so any further changes will have to be done to this one.

Is there a deadline for last comments/suggestions? End of December?
msprange
Site Admin
Posts: 14742
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:25 pm

Re: Gender Neutrality

Postby msprange » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:22 am

End of December it is!
Matthew Sprange

Mongoose Publishing
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com

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