Jump Travel

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
phavoc
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Jump Travel

Postby phavoc » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:06 pm

Pg148 – Jump Travel: The 100D rule needs to be clarified, as old rules and probably new ones will contradict it. It says you need to be 100D from any object, but drop tanks are an object and are canon and used. So it should say from a planetary body, or at least provide for some mass-based description to determine when a referee needs to utilize the mis-jump table. In previous editions there was mention about the dangers of going outside the ship in jump space. Is this listed elsewhere? Is it possible to go on the hull of the ship during while it’s in jump? Is there risk or not?

For the actual jump command itself, couldn’t one of the failures of not maintaining the jump drive be a simple failure (i.e. you threw the switch, and nothing happened because the Cr2 fuse blew?), or maybe the jump bubble didn’t quite form so you’ve wasted all your jump fuel, but don’t actually jump. Perhaps another 1D6 table here? Maybe this idea belongs in the Misjump section?
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby AKAramis » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:26 pm

Per t5, it's "any object larger than the ship"... since T5 is definitive for Traveller tech, MGT2E should be brought into compliance.
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phavoc
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby phavoc » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:29 pm

AKAramis wrote:Per t5, it's "any object larger than the ship"... since T5 is definitive for Traveller tech, MGT2E should be brought into compliance.
Is that a sliding ship scale? A 2,000 ton heavy freighter can safely jump with a free trader within 100D, but not vice versa?
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby AKAramis » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:25 am

phavoc wrote:
AKAramis wrote:Per t5, it's "any object larger than the ship"... since T5 is definitive for Traveller tech, MGT2E should be brought into compliance.
Is that a sliding ship scale? A 2,000 ton heavy freighter can safely jump with a free trader within 100D, but not vice versa?
Yes.
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grauenwolf
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby grauenwolf » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:39 am

At what range would the smaller ship be sucked into the hyperspace bubble and go along for the ride?
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby phavoc » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:55 pm

grauenwolf wrote:At what range would the smaller ship be sucked into the hyperspace bubble and go along for the ride?
Or would it? Or would only the jumping ship be affected by misjump? If you look at the illustrations put out, showing ships fighting and such, they are always like at point-blank range, range-band speaking. So that gives a person the idea that jumping while a ship is in close pursuit might occur.

Ergo it would be nice to finally get a paragraph that officially states how it's supposed to work and what the specific dangers are to each ship. Original CT put out more detailed thought analysis and such in the JTAS (as well as expanding the rules of a nascent gaming system). MGT used to do that and then stopped years ago. Since the rules are being re-jiggered and re-published it would be nice to see this as a standard - filling in holes in the rules that have existed for a while. Otherwise what's the point of re-publishing the system if this isn't one of the core reasons?
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby Condottiere » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:41 pm

It's a bubble, and a pressure wave could push stuff away.

Or you may find a rather graphic demonstration of that isometric diagram.
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby AKAramis » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:45 pm

grauenwolf wrote:At what range would the smaller ship be sucked into the hyperspace bubble and go along for the ride?
The range where it's furthest edge is 1.5m from hull...

T5 is explicit that the smaller object within field gets badly damaged.

Hence, per T5, drop tanks aren't recoverable when used in the mode of "run up the drive, kick the tanks loose, and jump".... because they're not intact.
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby Bense » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:46 pm

It would be nice to see an explanation of whether a ship has to be at rest relative to the system it's in in order to jump or not. The travel table assumes that you'll want to be at rest when you jump, and that you'll be at rest when you emerge from a jump, but the starship combat section seems to say you can do it while maneuvering in combat.
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby grauenwolf » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:48 pm

AKAramis wrote:
grauenwolf wrote:At what range would the smaller ship be sucked into the hyperspace bubble and go along for the ride?
The range where it's furthest edge is 1.5m from hull...

T5 is explicit that the smaller object within field gets badly damaged.

Hence, per T5, drop tanks aren't recoverable when used in the mode of "run up the drive, kick the tanks loose, and jump".... because they're not intact.

So if you want to jump you need to pull in anything sticking out of the ship such as gun barrels, antenna, radar dishes, etc. lest they be damaged?

If so I'm cool with that. I was just imagining the hyperspace bubble to be more of a sphere than something that follows the contours of the ship's hull. Especially when looking at ring ships like the Lab.
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby Bense » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:21 am

In T5 the regular jump drive produces a bubble around the ship. There's even a formula for figuring out how big it is. However, you can also install a "jump grid" that makes the jump field conform to your ship. The regular jump drive will accidently take debris and such along with it, possibly suffering a misjump if there is something too big nearby. The jump grid version doesn't have this problem but is more difficult to repair.
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby Condottiere » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:57 am

I'd say one percent variance in hull volume from the calculated jump doesn't affect it, or debris within the created jump bubble.
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:42 pm

Pg 144, Power Requirements, Jump Drive
You state that the power requirement is only needed when the ship actually makes a jump – at all other times, the jump drive remains inert.
SO-you are saying the Jump Drive is inert in Jumpspace? Please make sure you clearly state if this is true or not. MAJOR canon point here!
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:43 pm

Pg 148, Preparing for Jump, Divert Power
IS: On many vessels, especially older ships, …
SHOULD BE: On many vessels, especially lower Tech Level ships, …

I'm pretty sure that 100 year-old TL-15 ship doesn't have this problem, while that sparkly new TL-9 ship just might...
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby Condottiere » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:15 pm

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:Pg 144, Power Requirements, Jump Drive
You state that the power requirement is only needed when the ship actually makes a jump – at all other times, the jump drive remains inert.
SO-you are saying the Jump Drive is inert in Jumpspace? Please make sure you clearly state if this is true or not. MAJOR canon point here!
Doesn't sound like it could work, since something must maintain the bubble, and has to draw the required energy from the power plant, otherwise you could just install capacitors that accumulate energy for the initial push, and the power plant only has to provide basic power to life support.
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:23 pm

Agreed, but RAW seems a bit vague on that issue. I am just asking for clarification within the rules.
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby phavoc » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:04 pm

Bense wrote:In T5 the regular jump drive produces a bubble around the ship. There's even a formula for figuring out how big it is. However, you can also install a "jump grid" that makes the jump field conform to your ship. The regular jump drive will accidently take debris and such along with it, possibly suffering a misjump if there is something too big nearby. The jump grid version doesn't have this problem but is more difficult to repair.
Aren't there three jump variants in T5?

As far as the jump "bubble" goes, if you assume it to be literal, then a bubble exists around the ship and decreases over time. If you don't try to break that down, it is literally a bubble that would be at least the diameter of the longest axis of the ship. And it could slowly break down, say even inches, before it collapses. Would be nice to get a two sentenance clarification on it exactly.

And if you go with that idea, then sure, you can go EVA on the hull, but if you lose grip and fly off, it's somewhere in the universe (or along the path) you pop out. Maybe.

As far as the j-drive working, I would say that once the bubble has been formed the drive has done it's duty. In hyperspace the only power you need is ships power - no weapons, no jump drive. So you would have tons of excess power to use for, umm, nothing. But it would be there!

This is actually a place where if alternative fuel consumption rules were put in place a ship could conserve fuel while in jump space with it's reactor operating at say 50% power, so 50% fuel consumption.
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby Bense » Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:23 am

phavoc wrote:Aren't there three jump variants in T5?
You know, I'm not sure. The rules mention "jump plates" as well, but they seem to be intended for repairs to a jump-grid equipped ship rather than an entirely different system. But then the rules also say you can retro-fit them to a jump-grid equipped ship, though I have no idea why you would want to. Well, that's T5 for you.
As far as the jump "bubble" goes, if you assume it to be literal, then a bubble exists around the ship and decreases over time. If you don't try to break that down, it is literally a bubble that would be at least the diameter of the longest axis of the ship. And it could slowly break down, say even inches, before it collapses. Would be nice to get a two sentenance clarification on it exactly.

The formula in T5 is (Tons * 13.5)^1/3 * 20 meters. Or "for most purposes a Jump Bubble is about five times the diameter of the average length, width, and height of the ship." There's nothing about it shrinking over time while in jump, though.
As far as the j-drive working, I would say that once the bubble has been formed the drive has done it's duty. In hyperspace the only power you need is ships power - no weapons, no jump drive. So you would have tons of excess power to use for, umm, nothing. But it would be there!
That is how it works in T5. If your jump drive blows up after you're already in jump space it's no problem, as long as it doesn't blow up your ship with it. You'll still emerge exactly where you would have if the drives were still intact.
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby Bense » Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:23 am

Oops, double post.
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Re: Jump Travel

Postby Condottiere » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:32 am

They don't contradict each other, since they still establish a hyperjump field that allows a transition.

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