Buying a ship

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phavoc
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Buying a ship

Postby phavoc » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:47 pm

Pg142 – Buying a Ship: Paragraph on monthly repayments says “Start with the total purchase price of the ship being bought, then divide this amount by 240” Should be 480.
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby Captain Jonah » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:02 pm

Unless the new rules change it a ships mortgage is divide by 240 to get the monthly payment over forty years, you pay back twice the ships value in total.
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby -Daniel- » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:59 pm

Captain Jonah wrote:Unless the new rules change it a ships mortgage is divide by 240 to get the monthly payment over forty years, you pay back twice the ships value in total.
So you are thinking they meant a 68 million credit ship will end up costing 136 million?
phavoc
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby phavoc » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:04 pm

Captain Jonah wrote:Unless the new rules change it a ships mortgage is divide by 240 to get the monthly payment over forty years, you pay back twice the ships value in total.
40 years * 12mos/year = 480. The 240 number only gets you a 20 year mortgage. Mortgages have always been spread over a longer period so you can actually make money. That and the ships last a long time.
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby allanimal » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:22 pm

phavoc wrote:
Captain Jonah wrote:Unless the new rules change it a ships mortgage is divide by 240 to get the monthly payment over forty years, you pay back twice the ships value in total.
40 years * 12mos/year = 480. The 240 number only gets you a 20 year mortgage. Mortgages have always been spread over a longer period so you can actually make money. That and the ships last a long time.
I assumed that it was a 40 year loan that you end up paying 100% interest on.
Does not seem too out of the question.
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby phavoc » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:26 pm

allanimal wrote:I assumed that it was a 40 year loan that you end up paying 100% interest on.
Does not seem too out of the question.
In the far future there seems to be rules against usury. :) Ship prices have always been calculated without interest. It could be too that the Imperium has stamped out inflation (after all a Cr is a Cr is a Cr throughout the Imperium). Maybe the Fed needs to take some lessons from Imperial economists?
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby Captain Jonah » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:30 pm

-Daniel- wrote:
Captain Jonah wrote:Unless the new rules change it a ships mortgage is divide by 240 to get the monthly payment over forty years, you pay back twice the ships value in total.
So you are thinking they meant a 68 million credit ship will end up costing 136 million?
Yep. That's the way it's always been. Most players never pay off a ship, the monthly is just temptation to skip :D

Welcome to the world of buying a starship as a free trader. The banks rip you off massively :roll:
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby -Daniel- » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:07 pm

Captain Jonah wrote: Welcome to the world of buying a starship as a free trader. The banks rip you off massively :roll:
Banks ripping people off? Wow, just like now. :mrgreen:

I don't have an issue with there being interest for the loan, makes sense. I just think it might be stated to make it clear that is what they were thinking.
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:11 pm

Actually, if a 40-year loan only doubles the payback amount that interest rate is about 2% or 3%.

Current 20-year mortages on homes (in the 5% range) just about double the amount. I know, I just bought a house.

When I bought my first house, it was at 8% interest and the 20-year mortgage TRIPLED the total amount that I paid: $70K for the house and $150K for interest.

I think the double-cost amount is correct. it is not 100% interest, it is 2% interest compounded over 40 years...
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby AKAramis » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:07 pm

Captain Jonah wrote:
-Daniel- wrote:
Captain Jonah wrote:Unless the new rules change it a ships mortgage is divide by 240 to get the monthly payment over forty years, you pay back twice the ships value in total.
So you are thinking they meant a 68 million credit ship will end up costing 136 million?
Yep. That's the way it's always been. Most players never pay off a ship, the monthly is just temptation to skip :D

Welcome to the world of buying a starship as a free trader. The banks rip you off massively :roll:
Almost every merchant campaign I've run results in buying out the ship. Under CT, MT, TNE, T4, T20... all of them... a few good runs, and you can pay paments years ahead. CT Bk2 & T20, both can result in major profit margins... one particularly good run pays the ship off, and buys a second.
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby -Daniel- » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:18 pm

AKAramis wrote:.... one particularly good run pays the ship off, and buys a second.
The idea of running two ships or more is just hard for me to imagine. Not because it is a bad idea or anything like that, just we never seemed to get that rich. :mrgreen:
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby Condottiere » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:20 am

Less so for a Vargr captain with an ambitious number two.
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby Captain Jonah » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:42 am

Multi ship games can be great, with lots of options available to a group. They do require some people to create second characters if the ships are very different but getting together a group with several ships leads to lots of new adventure possibility.

It becomes complex when you end up with a scout and a free trader but a little planning and the group can use the scout for advanced missions while the trader with minimum crew makes a little money then comes in to clean up any deals the scouts have sorted.

Self escorting convoys or a starmerc team with a corsair or escort type and a freighter.

Depends on how flexible the players and GM are :)

Which is why I think it should be up to the people in the game to decide how many ships of what type they have rather than the rules saying you get a free trader and that's the only ship you are allowed even if your scout did roll a ship of his own. The rules should be a framework for having fun, there should be NO ironclad restrictions of any sort in the rules, only suggestions and guidelines.

Its the 21st century now, not the 1970s. Flexible frameworks of rules we can have fun within NOT restrictive limits we must fight against.
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:00 pm

I played in one game where that happened. Wish we had had the rules from Merchant Prince back then...

When multiple ships are part of the game, then Merchant Prince and the rules for companies becomes invaluable. ALSO, if you are setting up a trading company, then likely you won't be using the Trade rules as written, since you can now make those advanced deals and schedule regular runs and get all the advantages (or at least some of them) that the big boys get. Of course you are now direct competition and they don't always like that...
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Re: Buying a ship

Postby Captain Jonah » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:52 pm

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:I played in one game where that happened. Wish we had had the rules from Merchant Prince back then...

When multiple ships are part of the game, then Merchant Prince and the rules for companies becomes invaluable. ALSO, if you are setting up a trading company, then likely you won't be using the Trade rules as written, since you can now make those advanced deals and schedule regular runs and get all the advantages (or at least some of them) that the big boys get. Of course you are now direct competition and they don't always like that...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That being where the Corsair or patrol cruiser that is the other ship comes into it's own :lol:
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !

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