Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

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First Age
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Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby First Age » Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:23 am

Noting the old school Traveller purism of this method, was there any thought to a sidebar for alternatives, such as choosing the assignment of numbers, points methods, rolling with Bonus/Boon die for big dumb heroes etc etc?

Or is that going in the Companion? For me it would be a useful inclusion in the core rulebook.
First Age
TrippyHippy
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby TrippyHippy » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:39 pm

For me, I'd like to see a method of assigned scores or points spend as core. It wouldn't take more than a sentence to add the option in either:

"Alternatively, a player can simply assign the scores 10, 9, 7, 7, 6, 3 to any stat in any order."

or,

"Alternatively, a player can simply spend 42 points on a point for point basis, with a range of 2-12 in any stat in any order."
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AndrewW
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby AndrewW » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:37 pm

First Age wrote:Or is that going in the Companion? For me it would be a useful inclusion in the core rulebook.
Yup, 'alternate' stuff will be covered by the Traveller Companion.
-Daniel-
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby -Daniel- » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:33 pm

I don't mind the idea of the core giving the "standard" process and the various alternative optional methods covered in the Traveller Companion. I like the idea.
Major Tom
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby Major Tom » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:03 pm

I would really rather not have to shell out for a second book to get details for the character generation method I will use as standard. While I get the whole classic thing not having at least an alternate points buy for stats is a big turn off for me.
Ifandbut
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby Ifandbut » Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:20 pm

-Daniel- wrote:I don't mind the idea of the core giving the "standard" process and the various alternative optional methods covered in the Traveller Companion. I like the idea.
MGT1 had variations for character creation in the core book at the end of the character creation chapter. I'm surprised it was removed from MGT2.
-Daniel-
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby -Daniel- » Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:53 pm

Ifandbut wrote:
-Daniel- wrote:I don't mind the idea of the core giving the "standard" process and the various alternative optional methods covered in the Traveller Companion. I like the idea.
MGT1 had variations for character creation in the core book at the end of the character creation chapter. I'm surprised it was removed from MGT2.
Good Point. I guess this is one I could live with either way. I imagine I will still do it the way I want at my table regardless of what I find in the core book. :wink:
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby TrippyHippy » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:26 am

The problem, of course, with rolling stats in order is that players may end up with a character they don't want to play!

I don't really see why having a simple point spend, or allocation, is really an 'advanced option' anyway. For many gamers it's the default - and it was included with very little fuss in the first edition. Why go back on that?
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ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:52 am

Really? The way characteristics are rolled has to be a rule in the book? These games have referees, correct? There is still Traveller Rule Zero to use.
Major Tom
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby Major Tom » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:49 am

Not everyone has access to Traveler editions going back decades to pick their favourite generation system version from. Putting a modern points based or rolls with insurance system in would make the game more accessible to new players. Even D&D doesn't go with the hardcore, "sorry your rolls suck, enjoy not being able to take part in huge swathes of the game," approach these days.
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby VenomousFiligree » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:47 am

I dislike random abilities for PCs too and would much prefer a point buy system.

I guess if we refer back to Traveller Rule Zero all the time, we can cut the page count down quite drastically... Maybe a 50 page book....
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby TrippyHippy » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:20 am

ShawnDriscoll wrote:Really? The way characteristics are rolled has to be a rule in the book? These games have referees, correct? There is still Traveller Rule Zero to use.
A core book - an introductory book - should have clear simple rules to follow, and not be dependent on an experienced referee's fiat. If you only put random generation in, it will put off potential new players - I can guarantee that.
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Matt Wilson
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby Matt Wilson » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:35 pm

TrippyHippy wrote: A core book - an introductory book - should have clear simple rules to follow, and not be dependent on an experienced referee's fiat. If you only put random generation in, it will put off potential new players - I can guarantee that.
Yes. This. Total agreement.
Major Tom
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby Major Tom » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:11 pm

First run through got me a 30 year old Marine Corporal from Ground Assault who mustered out after a messy divorce.

856837
Athletics 0, Drive 0, Gun Combat 2, Heavy Weapons 0, Recon 1, Stealth 0, Streetwise 0, Tactics 0, Vacc Suit 1

Mustering out benefits were Armour, Weapon, 30,000cr and TAS membership.

When I set out my intention was not to create a Marine NCO, which could hurt my interest in the character in the medium to long term. Not the best experience to be honest. I believe it would be better if the stat generation was done by spreading 42 points across the six stats. You could keep the random life path but that way the player has a better chance of getting into and staying in a career or a career path they want for their character.
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby -Daniel- » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:23 pm

One of the methods I have not seen in this conversation that I really liked was; roll the six stats but allow the player to assign them as they desire. So looking at your marine at 856837 I could have also had a citizen or scholar at 536887. Same numbers but a very different person. Or how about a Rogue at 678853, smart but a low life in the eyes of their culture.

It gives the player some control while keeping the randomness of the generation.

Just a thought.
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby Major Tom » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:39 pm

That's better than the current. It doesn't get away from really terrible dice rolls though. I know at least one guy who couldn't roll above 5 on 2D to save his life.

Edit:

What I'd really like to know is what benefit people think random stat generation brings to the game, because from my perspective random generation sans insurance is all downside.
Last edited by Major Tom on Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
anselyn
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby anselyn » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:39 pm

Matt Wilson wrote:
TrippyHippy wrote: A core book - an introductory book - should have clear simple rules to follow, and not be dependent on an experienced referee's fiat. If you only put random generation in, it will put off potential new players - I can guarantee that.
Yes. This. Total agreement.
+1

The target audience should be the Mass Effect player or Firefly viewer who has picked up this book with the cool starship on the front (c.f. thread on Inspirational Reading/viewing) and has heard that apparently RPGs don't always use computers - not the old timers like us who'll play it anyway. The hurdle of a minigame to start is quite enough without adding any complications or write your own rules options.
Anal nathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do che'l de'nmha
-Daniel-
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby -Daniel- » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:03 am

Major Tom wrote: What I'd really like to know is what benefit people think random stat generation brings to the game, because from my perspective random generation sans insurance is all downside.
First let me be disclose I use the point buy in Pathfinder. And other various systems in lots of other RPGs I have played in the past. Roll 4d6 drop lowest, point buys, standard spreads, etc. :-)

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me the randomness in Traveller is a simple thing. In most other RPGs the game starts for me, after the character is created. I create a set of stats and give it the class/feats and other stuff. Once done the game begins.

For me, Traveller has always been different. The game begins when I pick up the dice to generate my character. The whole character generation process is part of the game experience for me. Not creation, generation. It is almost like I play out levels one through three while I generate my Traveller character.

The random element gives me the same feeling I get when rolling to hit in Pathfinder or D&D. That "OMG, what will happen" feeling. As sick as it may sound to others, I enjoy not knowing for sure what I will end up with in Traveller.

But again, this is a part of the Traveller experience for me. In D&D or Pathfinder or Shadowrun or .... well you get the picture. In the other RPGs I have played I visualize the character I want and build my character as close to that as I can. In Traveller, the dice give me a starting point and the process gives me a vision of who they are. The game is already going in my mind. :mrgreen:

Now having said all that, I am not against others using what ever process grants them the most excitement and joy. I want each player to come to the table excited to play in the game. That is why, despite the fact I would not use them, I am not against other characteristic generation systems being included. :D
ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:10 am

-Daniel- wrote:[I am not against others using what ever process grants them the most excitement and joy. I want each player to come to the table excited to play in the game. That is why, despite the fact I would not use them, I am not against other characteristic generation systems being included. :D
I like that AD&D has so many die roll methods for generating characteristics. But I don't use any of them.
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Re: Roll 2D in Order for your Stats

Postby DickNervous » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:02 am

I have always allowed the players to roll 2D6 6 times and order them however they want to fit the type of character they want to try to create. If the total of the 6 rolls is less than 38 I sometimes let them roll one more time and they can drop the lowest roll. This is to make them closer to "average" of 42, but that all depends on the situation.

I think it would be good to dedicate a few short paragraphs to alternate ways of generating the base characteristics like it is in MgT1.
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