Overall Physical design and art.

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
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ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:34 am

hiro wrote:My computer isn't state of the art (it's a mid 2012 mac book pro with 8 gig ram) but it's not that bad yet still it takes more time to turn the pages in the full version PDF using Preview than I'd like. I've not tried it with Adobe Reader but Preview tends to work well enough for most things (though not the Java rich BTRC rules EABA)

I default to reading the printer friendly version as I want to cut to the chase and get the info.

I would tho want line artwork in the printer friendly version, it's good to see art work in any book to spark the imagination.

A printed version (which I rarely buy so take this with a pinch of salt) should be rich and gorgeous to look at.

And yes, that leaves me without a strong opinion on the full PDF version, I am not computer savvy enough to know if it's my computer thats causing the issue or the document itself.
PDF page flipping is instant on my computer reading the core rules.
Major Tom
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby Major Tom » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:41 am

The new layout is a huge improvement over the mid-80s presentation of the previous edition. Some of the artwork is still questionable, but nothing on the level of the inexcusable weapon pictures on p. 99 and 100 of the first edition MRB.
hiro

Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby hiro » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:45 am

ShawnDriscoll wrote:PDF page flipping is instant on my computer reading the core rules.
and your computer is? and you view with which software?
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ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:53 am

Major Tom wrote:The new layout is a huge improvement over the mid-80s presentation of the previous edition. Some of the artwork is still questionable, but nothing on the level of the inexcusable weapon pictures on p. 99 and 100 of the first edition MRB.
I prefer the concept sketch art over the CG photoreal art. I don't want players thinking that a photo of a gun means that is the only gun ever made in the universe and that is how that particular gun model will always look out of the tin. A sketch means "guns look like this in general."

If a CG photoreal battle dress suit is rendered for the new rules, guess what?... Every player will be wearing that exact same armor down to its serial number being the same even, no matter where in the universe they buy theirs from. I'd rather the thing be sketchy.
Last edited by ShawnDriscoll on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Daniel-
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby -Daniel- » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:56 am

hiro wrote:
ShawnDriscoll wrote:PDF page flipping is instant on my computer reading the core rules.
and your computer is? and you view with which software?
Hiro, try adobe reader and see how that reacts. It could be that your preview is re-rendering everything each time you flip a page. Would be worth a try to see if it works better. 8)
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ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:59 am

hiro wrote:
ShawnDriscoll wrote:PDF page flipping is instant on my computer reading the core rules.
and your computer is? and you view with which software?
Windows 7, running the new-fangled Adobe Reader DC that's online now. Soda 3D Reader flips through its pages just fine also. My screen is 1280x1024. The software will cache pages before and after the one you're reading. So flipping is swimmingly smoothe.
TrippyHippy
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby TrippyHippy » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:13 am

-Daniel- wrote:
TrippyHippy wrote: I hope that Mongoose sticks with the full cover design, and hope that it will include full glossy pages too.
Would you agree in places like the Subsector map, the ghosted background should be dropped (just on that page) to make the map easier to read?

What about the orange fuzzy type on the black background? Do you think that is ok?

Or are you ok with 100% of it?
The fuzzy orange on black for the equipment chapter could be looked at as well as the subsector map for the reasons you cite. However, the general black on blue, or blue on black I find entirely readable. Moreso than the standard black on white.
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IanBruntlett
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby IanBruntlett » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:37 am

hiro wrote:
ShawnDriscoll wrote:PDF page flipping is instant on my computer reading the core rules.
and your computer is? and you view with which software?
PMFJI, here's how I'm experiencing things...

Computer Details.
Lenovo ThinkPad T420 (purchased refurbished from http://www.tier1online.com/)
Intel i5-2520M CPU (2.5 GHz), 64 bit
RAM: 8 GiB

Operating system
Ubuntu 15.04, 64 bit

Performance reading the Traveller_Core_Rulebook.pdf

Performance using Firefox 40.0.4 web browser (least efficient)
Loads within seconds. Moving to new pages as seamless as possible

Performance using Evince Document Viewer (3.14.2)
Feels slightly slower loading the PDF
Moves to new pages even more seamlessly

HTH :)
-- My writings : https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett
-- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://accu.org
-- Free Software Page : https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntl ... e-software
Major Tom
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby Major Tom » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:09 pm

ShawnDriscoll wrote:I prefer the concept sketch art over the CG photoreal art. I don't want players thinking that a photo of a gun means that is the only gun ever made in the universe and that is how that particular gun model will always look out of the tin. A sketch means "guns look like this in general."

If a CG photoreal battle dress suit is rendered for the new rules, guess what?... Every player will be wearing that exact same armor down to its serial number being the same even, no matter where in the universe they buy theirs from. I'd rather the thing be sketchy.
I do get where you are coming from but one of the key roles of the art is to sell the game. Crude concept scetches do not grab people's attention, or if they do it's in a negative fashion. There has been a lot of negative reaction to those particular images.
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ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:20 pm

Major Tom wrote:
ShawnDriscoll wrote:I prefer the concept sketch art over the CG photoreal art. I don't want players thinking that a photo of a gun means that is the only gun ever made in the universe and that is how that particular gun model will always look out of the tin. A sketch means "guns look like this in general."

If a CG photoreal battle dress suit is rendered for the new rules, guess what?... Every player will be wearing that exact same armor down to its serial number being the same even, no matter where in the universe they buy theirs from. I'd rather the thing be sketchy.
I do get where you are coming from but one of the key roles of the art is to sell the game. Crude concept scetches do not grab people's attention, or if they do it's in a negative fashion. There has been a lot of negative reaction to those particular images.
Chthonian Stars has the perfect sketched art for a Traveller book. I'd like Mongoose to have that art style. Not theme. Style.
TrippyHippy
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby TrippyHippy » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:23 am

Cthonian Stars style is a bit heavy for this purpose though I'd say. It was creating a particular tone (horror) and, if anything had a more obtrusive background.

I think the truth is that you can't account for all tastes, but it has to stated again that the single most criticised aspect of MgT1E was it's interior layout, design and art. That has to be addressed in this edition, and needs to be something that will work out for at least another decade of publishing.

For me, notwithstanding a few issues with maps and popout text, the general look is quite smart. It's different for sure, but if it was the layout for any other game I doubt it would garner much criticism. So my vote is: I like it.*


* with the stipulation that I don't know what the art looks like yet, so I'll reserve my judgement on that score.
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ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:41 am

TrippyHippy wrote:Cthonian Stars style is a bit heavy for this purpose though I'd say. It was creating a particular tone (horror) and, if anything had a more obtrusive background.

I think the truth is that you can't account for all tastes, but it has to stated again that the single most criticised aspect of MgT1E was it's interior layout, design and art. That has to be addressed in this edition, and needs to be something that will work out for at least another decade of publishing.

For me, notwithstanding a few issues with maps and popout text, the general look is quite smart. It's different for sure, but if it was the layout for any other game I doubt it would garner much criticism. So my vote is: I like it.*


* with the stipulation that I don't know what the art looks like yet, so I'll reserve my judgement on that score.
I wouldn't use the horror theme from that in MgT2. Just the drawing style.
Belisknar
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby Belisknar » Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:56 pm

-Daniel- wrote:The only issue I have with the new layout is the catalog section's orange on orange color selection. I don't care that they might have been going for an orange computer terminal look, it is very hard to read and does not look good. The contrast needs to be increased and, IMO, the font needs to be changed.
I agree completely. Contrast is a major issue for some people. especially those with certain types of colour blindness. I've found the colour version of the PDF quite difficult to read at times and have defaulted to the B/W printer friendly version for most of my use.

The font colouring with the background used in the common spacecraft section I find rather difficult to read as standard the bright text on the bright background is rather straining on the eyes.
haveahappy
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Re: Overall Physical design and art.

Postby haveahappy » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:54 am

hiro wrote:My computer isn't state of the art (it's a mid 2012 mac book pro with 8 gig ram) but it's not that bad yet still it takes more time to turn the pages in the full version PDF using Preview than I'd like. I've not tried it with Adobe Reader but Preview tends to work well enough for most things (though not the Java rich BTRC rules EABA)

I default to reading the printer friendly version as I want to cut to the chase and get the info.

I would tho want line artwork in the printer friendly version, it's good to see art work in any book to spark the imagination.

A printed version (which I rarely buy so take this with a pinch of salt) should be rich and gorgeous to look at.

And yes, that leaves me without a strong opinion on the full PDF version, I am not computer savvy enough to know if it's my computer thats causing the issue or the document itself.
What I'd really love is some proper effort spent towards a serious electronic product. Forget PDF's, give me Mobi/ePub files. I want to have the core book open on my kindle in one hand, and be writing my session prep notes with the other. I don't want a PDF that takes forever to load and I'm forever having to scroll around and zoom in and out - that way lies madness. Madness I say!

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