Missile Thrust

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
AKAramis
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby AKAramis » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:26 pm

phavoc wrote:
msprange wrote:The missiles in the Core book are the basic model - there are lots of higher performance options in High Guard.

Given that, does anyone have a serious issue with 5G missiles?
In general even the "civilian" style missiles should be faster than most of your civilian ships. And missiles are kind of tiny things, so their power-to-mass ratio should far exceed most ships. Not to mention if you are in a stern chase they may not catch up all the time.

I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be put back to 10G. I guess the other question would be - what is the advantage of them being ONLY 5G? What was the reason you wanted to drop them back again?
civilian ships will mostly be 1 and 2 G vessels. A few high-speed in-system liners will exceed that...
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phavoc
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby phavoc » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:49 am

Missiles should be fast, period. They are nothing but engine and payload (with a sensor package). So all of their energy can be expended for speed.

The 5G speed seems arbitrary. Why not make it 6G so no regular ship could outrun them? What is present in the gaming system that requires them to be 5G? We had this same argument with the release of the original CRB, so missiles were switched to being 10G - which mad far more sense. Now we are back to 5G. The fact that many civilian ships are "only 1 or 2G" has no bearing on the speed of a missile.

And, using real world vessels as an example, the very slow speeds of civilian ships is not akin to the at all what they are in reality. Small adventure-class ships should be faster. Yachts aren't little pokey things, they are fast and flashy so they can be shown off. Passenger liners are typically the fastest of civilian ships (remember that liners continually attempted to set speed records in the trans-atlantic runs). The free trader would be like common transports of WW2 - slow, plodding but efficient.
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby Melbourne Accords » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:39 am

I'd take a similar view to Rikki Tikki Traveller and Phavoc. I'd advise that 10G missiles are included in the Core book. It's great that enhanced weapons will be available in High Guard, but we have found 10G to work very well in our games.
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby msprange » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:01 pm

Been humming and harring about this - finally decided to go with 10G missiles.
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:36 pm

msprange wrote:Been humming and harring about this - finally decided to go with 10G missiles.
Will they maintain their 4D damage, or have they been replaced with another
Keep from high guard, and the 5G/4D version comes in that book instead?
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby msprange » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:38 pm

They will keep their damage.
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:42 pm

msprange wrote:They will keep their damage.
:shock:

Cool!

I'm almost afraid to see stats for torpedoes now... :)

EDIT: Not that I disapprove in any way, not at all. Just that the old torpedoes were four times deadlier than missiles, and if the missile is boosted from 1D to 4D and retains its 10G, then the new torpedoes must be really scary :)
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby phavoc » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:42 pm

Good. Now everyone is going to rush out to buy missiles...and freak out at the cost of firing just one turret salvo! And then think they maybe need to invest in lasers instead because you can't afford to let even one missile hit you in your dinky pc owned ship.

Should introduce some interesting new playing philosophies.
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby AndrewW » Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:19 pm

Annatar Giftbringer wrote:I'm almost afraid to see stats for torpedoes now... :)

EDIT: Not that I disapprove in any way, not at all. Just that the old torpedoes were four times deadlier than missiles, and if the missile is boosted from 1D to 4D and retains its 10G, then the new torpedoes must be really scary :)
I did calculate out the various torpedo types using the same scaling that currently exists but with missiles at 4d6 instead of 1d6... You should try some antimatter torpedoes using that...
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:26 pm

AndrewW wrote:
Annatar Giftbringer wrote:I'm almost afraid to see stats for torpedoes now... :)

EDIT: Not that I disapprove in any way, not at all. Just that the old torpedoes were four times deadlier than missiles, and if the missile is boosted from 1D to 4D and retains its 10G, then the new torpedoes must be really scary :)
I did calculate out the various torpedo types using the same scaling that currently exists but with missiles at 4d6 instead of 1d6... You should try some antimatter torpedoes using that...
Ow... No... That's just pure evil... :)

I'm guessing it should be somewhere around 5DD? I assume the destructive trait will pop up quite a few times in high guard? Considering that a missile now is 4D, barbettes and especially bays would presumably be higher still... And eventually, DD becomes easier to use than 'bucket of dice'
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby Condottiere » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:36 pm

I'll speculate that either torpedoes become over powerful, or get absorbed by drone missiles, or are written out.
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby phavoc » Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:33 am

I would like to see something along the lines of if you get hit by a top and you are under a certain tonnage you just die. If you baseline sat a 1000 ton ship with no armor and use that as an example it would make tops quite deadly to small ships, and it would scale nicely with the new missile power. Torps are quite a bit larger so they should do much more damage than they used to. They are 30x the size of a standard missile, and while they may not scale up as 30x damage, it should be quite a bit higher. And much more feared.
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby FallingPhoenix » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:08 am

phavoc wrote:Good. Now everyone is going to rush out to buy missiles...and freak out at the cost of firing just one turret salvo! And then think they maybe need to invest in lasers instead because you can't afford to let even one missile hit you in your dinky pc owned ship.

Should introduce some interesting new playing philosophies.
It always seemed to me that missiles should be the "high damage, but high cost" option. Good for governments and others with big budgets...
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:05 pm

Maybe Torpedoes are 1DD on the Starship Scale (1d6x10 damage)...???

That makes them 1D on the Capital Ship Scale (if it is used...)
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phavoc
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby phavoc » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:38 pm

FallingPhoenix wrote:
phavoc wrote:Good. Now everyone is going to rush out to buy missiles...and freak out at the cost of firing just one turret salvo! And then think they maybe need to invest in lasers instead because you can't afford to let even one missile hit you in your dinky pc owned ship.

Should introduce some interesting new playing philosophies.
It always seemed to me that missiles should be the "high damage, but high cost" option. Good for governments and others with big budgets...
Oh yeah. They shouldn't be cheap. Which makes it all the better when you stumble upon a wreck and find a dozen intact missiles... Score!
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby Condottiere » Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:31 pm

That would be the next project, building a cheap missile.
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby phavoc » Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:19 pm

Condottiere wrote:That would be the next project, building a cheap missile.
Not sure that would be possible, at least extrapolating with today's tech. You can build something cheap, but when you get into milspec gear that's where being cheap makes it useless in combat. A missile (unless it's command-guided) needs it's own onboard seeker and tracking systems in addition to its warhead and propulsion system. And command-guided missiles can be jammed in addition to the normal ECM/ECCM environment that exists. So cheap really isn't an option.

About the only way to make a cheap missile is to make it a sprint-mode direct-fire style weapon, making it more like a cannon shot than a seeking missile.
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby wbnc » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:31 am

Id like to see a few types

Rockets= max range short, inaccurate -4 to attack, standard damage, cheap, double shots per ton.( possible auto-fire weapons)EXTREMELY cheap
Civilian= low dice, high speed,less accurate cheap.more shots per ton.
Civilian Heavy= more dice, shorter range, less accurate, more expensive.
Civilian Self defense= max range short, can intercept missiles, torpedoes, small craft, low damage, extremely accurate +2 to attack. more shots per ton...double normal missiles per ton.

Military self defense= as civilian self defense, more damage.double normal shots per ton
Military Light= lower dice, high speed, standard accuracy standard costs.
Military heavy= as described 4d6, thrust 5. standard accuracy. fewer shots per ton
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby Condottiere » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:01 am

I'd like to see sabotted mini-missiles launched from sandcasters.
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Re: Missile Thrust

Postby Captain Jonah » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:44 pm

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