Question on characteristics rolling

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-Daniel-
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby -Daniel- » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:19 am

Ok, I see where the miscommunication came from. Gun Combat (Slug Pistol)-5 is possible but not Gun Combat-5.

Now I get your point. :mrgreen:
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ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:45 am

-Daniel- wrote:Ok, I see where the miscommunication came from. Gun Combat (Slug Pistol)-5 is possible but not Gun Combat-5.

Now I get your point. :mrgreen:
Ha! Ok. When I say Gun Combat, I'm probably talking literally about just the boring all-in-one Gun Combat skill. In my games, Gun Combat does not exist on anyone's character sheet. Players can make up what gun(s) they are skilled in if they add a Gun Combat skill, and I'll assign them damage rolls and ranges and tech-levels if they're not sure what those would be.
Last edited by ShawnDriscoll on Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
hiro

Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby hiro » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:47 am

Shaun of the Dross wrote:Ha! Ok. When I say Gun Combat, I'm probably talking literally about just the boring all-in-one Gun Combat skill. In my games, Gun Combat does not exist on anyone's character sheet. Players can make up what gun(s) they are skilled in, and I'll assign them damage rolls and ranges and tech-levels if they're not sure what those would be.
And yet you claim to play Mongoose Traveller?

Damn, I'm feeding the troll
Last edited by hiro on Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:48 am

hiro wrote:And yet you claim to play Mongoose Traveller?

Damn, I'm feeding the troll
I don't use every rule from it. Did I mention I don't use initiative or combat rounds either? I'm a firm believer that 11,000 worlds would have more than just 5 gun types available. I like how Mongoose 2nd edition will handle the guns much better. More freedom for the players, and not be locked into "pick from one of these guns only". More role-play and less rule-play. I prefer my players to role-play out of the box, rather than stick to using only what the rules say and follow only those rules (with all their rule limits) while role-play is kicked to the curb as it is in so many other Traveller games. So many, it isn't funny. I don't want to add more new players to that non-game-playing style.
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby Nobby-W » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:47 pm

-Daniel- wrote:I was asked by my players about using a "3d6 drop the lowest" process rather than the standard 2d6. If we do, I realize it will skew the average higher. Before I allow it, I was looking for input from anyone who has already done so.

Did it have a major or minor impact on the game? Did it even matter in the end? Is this more a "feel good" move?

I suspect the real impact is more one of perception rather than real impact, but I would like to hear from others.
It means your characters will have higher stats (obviously). The effects on game play will be roughly:
  • More likely to get positive modifiers on skills, str/dex mods on weapons etc.
  • More hit points, ergo tougher.
In practice, these won't materially affect game play, as you can re-balance encounters or other challenges as needed. Also, if you go with a more story-telling approach (assume the characters succeed unless the chance of failure adds something to the story) then it won't make a great deal of difference.

I think the main point of balance with Traveller characters is their skills. For example, the extended character generations sytems or MT system produced characters with more skills than the basic CT system did. You will need a party with a decent coverage of basic adventuring skills; beyond that anything is fluff and can be balanced to the party's capability.

I would suggest you go with it; if the whole party is doing it then there are no issues with balance between the characters. The players might feel a bit happier with their characters as you're going to have fewer significantly flawed ones (Int 5, Dex 4 sort of thing).
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby vladthemad » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:35 am

CosmicGamer wrote:
vladthemad wrote:Things like "We met in a bar and I learned how to shoot turrets and he learned how to run the drives" have been put forward.
Got in a bar brawl with the wrong person and had to leave town quick on a merchant ship which had to make some hasty repairs to the drives and shoot it's way past the offended locals ship trying to prevent your departure.
If they actually justified it like that, I would have accepted it ;) That's not what they said though. It's like pulling teeth to get them to come up with a good backstory.
ShawnDriscoll wrote: Characters won't have all skills though. And the skills they do have won't apply in every situation. Your players are ok with making skill checks for skills they don't have, right?
Well of course! That's part of the game, and real life. You aren't going to succeed very often at something you have no idea how to do. That's why there's a -3DM for untrained skills, and why the jack of all trades skill can be so powerful. It's also why the DM bonuses you get from attributes can be a bigger factor than many people realize...especially if you have high INT or EDU.
ShawnDriscoll wrote:I don't think Gun Combat 5 is possible. It's been awhile since I used that skill though in games.
I mean with specialization obviously, as well as with the other skills I noted.

Also, to those that are talking about specializations for gun combat in particular, Mongoose changed it to just two in Merc 2nd edition after a lot of feedback from players. The only specializations for Gun Combat now are Slug and Energy. Check page 8 for details.
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:39 am

vladthemad wrote:Also, to those that are talking about specializations for gun combat in particular, Mongoose changed it to just two in Merc 2nd edition after a lot of feedback from players. The only specializations for Gun Combat now are Slug and Energy. Check page 8 for details.
And soon it will be whatever the referee declares specializations to be.
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby -Daniel- » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:41 am

vladthemad wrote: Also, to those that are talking about specializations for gun combat in particular, Mongoose changed it to just two in Merc 2nd edition after a lot of feedback from players. The only specializations for Gun Combat now are Slug and Energy. Check page 8 for details.
And for those who do not own Merc 2 and don't elect to use the optional rules from Merc 2 what are they? :wink:
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby -Daniel- » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:43 am

ShawnDriscoll wrote:
vladthemad wrote:Also, to those that are talking about specializations for gun combat in particular, Mongoose changed it to just two in Merc 2nd edition after a lot of feedback from players. The only specializations for Gun Combat now are Slug and Energy. Check page 8 for details.
And soon it will be whatever the referee declares specializations to be.
Hasn't it always been that way? Game rules are what the Referee says they are at their table. :mrgreen:
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:48 am

-Daniel- wrote:And for those who do not own Merc 2 and don't elect to use the optional rules from Merc 2 what are they? :wink:
I don't have Mercenary 2nd Edition. Barely use mercenary careers. But in 1st Edition, Slug Carbines and Zero-G Weapons were added Gun Combat specialties.
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ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:52 am

-Daniel- wrote:Hasn't it always been that way? Game rules are what the Referee says they are at their table. :mrgreen:
I like my rules to be more "in general" than "these are your only options". That way I can add stuff to a game setting (if not just make my own game setting) without breaking the mechanic. I guess it has something to do with the writing style of the game designer. Some people like Marc Miller's style of writing where he repeats the same rules over a couple times in the same book, and they're still hard to find. Those LBBs would be half their page count without the duplicates.
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby vladthemad » Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:52 pm

-Daniel- wrote:
vladthemad wrote: Also, to those that are talking about specializations for gun combat in particular, Mongoose changed it to just two in Merc 2nd edition after a lot of feedback from players. The only specializations for Gun Combat now are Slug and Energy. Check page 8 for details.
And for those who do not own Merc 2 and don't elect to use the optional rules from Merc 2 what are they? :wink:
According to the latest (assuming 2nd edition hasn't dropped yet!) revision of the core rule book, the specialties are slug rifle, slug pistol, shotgun, energy rifle, and energy pistol ;)

I'd suggest getting Merc 2nd even for someone who doesn't want to use merc characters. It does add a few options for combat, corrects a bunch of rules, includes mass battle rules, and most of all has corrected and consolidate all the weapons from the other books in an appendix.

Even if you don't have anything but the core rule book and you don't want to spend the extra bit of cash for some of the others, you can get most of the rules for High Guard and Mercs in the SRD documents for free. Might be worth a look for any that are interested.
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby Askold » Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:45 pm

Merc 2 also simplifies the armor piercing rules which is an improvement in my opinion.

And I like the fact that the list of guns (some of which have been updated) includes pretty much all the ones that had been in the older books so it is helpful whether or not you have the other books.

And the rules for recruiting mercs are useful for any occasion where the players want to recruit several employees, even if they aren't mercenaries.
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby Nobby-W » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:11 pm

It depends on what you want to achieve. I think the most useful aspect of this type of approach is so that characters don't start with stats that are very low (penalties on rolls etc.) To this end I've used a number of variants of 3D and drop the lowest. For example,
  • Keep one die in order and swap the second remaining die as you see fit.
  • Roll and swap into your preferred order.
  • Roll 2-3 sets of stats and pick the one you like the best.
... And so on.

I think any of these will work fine. Let your player start again if they're really unhappy with what they get. Traveller characters are fairly mortal - a mid-high tech tactical response unit or infantry section will be a serious threat to pretty much any Traveller party. It's OK to let your players have slightly heroic characters as it won't materially affect game balance.

If you have persistent munchkin players then this is a different category of problem. The best solution to this is not a battalion of imperial marines but a quiet word with the player to ask them to stop being a knob-end.
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby haveahappy » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:48 am

All this faffing around so players can have stats a point or two higher :?
-Daniel-
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby -Daniel- » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:51 pm

haveahappy wrote:All this faffing around so players can have stats a point or two higher :?
Nope, not all of the systems suggested get the players Stats higher than the old CT roll in order.

For example, my favorite, roll 2d6 six times and assign them as desired. This allows the player to put their high score where it will influence the path they wish to go down, but does not offer any more pips that the original system. :wink:

Keep in mind, all this "faffling" is so the player feels they have some control in what path to take without abandoning the random character path system we all know and love. :mrgreen:
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby CosmicGamer » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:49 pm

-Daniel- wrote:Keep in mind, all this "faffling" is so the player feels they have some control in what path to take without abandoning the random character path system we all know and love. :mrgreen:
Maybe it is player vision or the adventures need, such as player characters needing the skills and "resume" to fill different crew positions. Something other than 100% random is needed by many playgroups. With Mongoose, the simple assign the 6 rolls to the characteristics as wanted gives the players character the edge needed to help enable them to go down the path desired.

This method also 100% supports those who want to assign the dice rolls in order instead of mixing it up.
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby -Daniel- » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:14 pm

CosmicGamer wrote: With Mongoose, the simple assign the 6 rolls to the characteristics as wanted gives the players character the edge needed to help enable them to go down the path desired.
Yep, that is why it is listed as my favorite method. :mrgreen:
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ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:28 pm

CosmicGamer wrote:Maybe it is player vision or the adventures need, such as player characters needing the skills and "resume" to fill different crew positions. Something other than 100% random is needed by many playgroups.
That's what packages are for at the end of chargen.
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Re: Question on characteristics rolling

Postby -Daniel- » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:35 pm

ShawnDriscoll wrote:
CosmicGamer wrote:Maybe it is player vision or the adventures need, such as player characters needing the skills and "resume" to fill different crew positions. Something other than 100% random is needed by many playgroups.
That's what packages are for at the end of chargen.
That is also one of the reasons I believe the connections need to remain "select any skill". It is one of the few places a Character can have a direct impact on their skills received.

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