Battleships of the various races?

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Annatar Giftbringer
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Battleships of the various races?

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:08 pm

Greetings,

Short version: do the other races use multi-thousand dTon battleships too?

Long version: my understanding of traveller - and especially the third imperium setting - is limited (but I'm working on it). I've noticed in high guard and trillion credit squadron that there are huge imperial warships out there.

I haven't seen or heard anything regarding the other races though. Logic dictates that they should exist, or the imperium would steamroll all opposition and rule everything, right?

I understand and appreciate that the alien module books have more important ships to focus on, better to include ships that have an immediate and apparent use. An expedition into Vargr space would be boring if instead of stumbling upon a corsair the players were faced with a 200,000 dTon battleship instantly obliterating them... But still, are they out there, or is the Jarl the biggest the sword worlds have, the Vlezhdatl a heavy Zhodani warship and so on?

Or am I totally clueless and have missed something important somewhere? :-)
Last edited by Annatar Giftbringer on Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Battleships or the various races?

Postby Jeraa » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:45 pm

I can't find any mention of larger ships for the alien races in Mongoose Traveller. I did find a single line in High Guard, however:
The Imperial Navy has the largest and most powerful vessels in space – dreadnoughts, battle tenders and other mighty warships.
So non-Imperial warships would tend to be smaller than Imperial ones.

In the Darrians book, it is mentioned that the Darrians consider a warship over 100,000 tons as a batleship. IT also mentions that the Darrians currently have no such ships themselves.

The Megatraveller Rebellion Sourcebook has a 30,000 ton Vargr battlecruiser and 10,000 ton Vargr heavy cruiser. Also 50,000 ton Aslan Ihatei-class clan transports. So bigger ships are a possibility, but no mention of battleships as far as I can see.
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Re: Battleships or the various races?

Postby phavoc » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:21 pm

The Zhodani do. Not sure about the Aslan.

I don't think Vargr, Droyne or Hiver do. MAYBE the K'Kree.

But, for the most part, the Alien race books really don't talk at all about capital ships.
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Re: Battleships or the various races?

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:31 am

Agreed, I would say that the races with a coherent Empire would have Battleships, but not the fractured ones, so Droyne, Aslan and Vargr do not, but everyone else does (if they are big enough).

Zhos definitely do, as they are fighting wars with the Imperium. Sollies do as well, even if they are old Imperial models; again, they just fought a war with the Imperium.

Hiver and K'Kree probably have smaller ones, since they don't really have an enemy on the border, but since they are so big, they could have a couple squadrons of multi-kiloton ships.

The Julian Protectorate might have some, sitting between several of the majory powers like they are, they may feel threatened by the Vargr and K'Kree and even the Imperium.
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Re: Battleships or the various races?

Postby Rick » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:54 am

It is for a different system, but "Power Projection: Fleets" Has the Zhodani going up to Battleships and Battle Tenders, even a single Super-Battleship (the Idlev), but no Dreadnaughts.
Actually, I just checked the Ad Astra miniatures site - it looks like they still have an active license to produce Traveller Fleet minis, as approved by Marc Miller, apparently. So I guess that means Mongoose probably won't be able to.
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
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Re: Battleships or the various races?

Postby Jame Rowe » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:17 pm

I agree that most major powers would have them, e.g. Solomani, Zhodani, K'Kree.

EDIT: I would also think that the Hivers would have some after the K'Kree war, primarily to counter the Centaurs - though mostly designed and crewed by their "subject" races. That, and they'd have them as a bluff against the Imps and the Sols.

Some Aslan clans would have a handful, as would a few of the Vargr states* that stick around long enough, and the Swordies and Darrians may have them depending on GM/story needs (though it'd be one of maybe a squadron total for those two).

*For Vargr, I'm willing to believe that there are a few nations which have citizens that are more like actual wolf families than not - e.g. they're constantly jockeying within the nation for position/charisma or what have you, but they're more devoted to the continuance of the nation than you'd expect. Though again, this is more of a thing for the specific GM and game group.
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Re: Battleships or the various races?

Postby Nathan Brazil » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:03 pm

The Confederation Navy’s combat history and the real threat of war with the Imperium or Aslan has led to it maximizing its combat capabilities by investing heavily in capital ships: dreadnoughts, battleships, battle riders and heavy cruisers along with carriers, tenders and logistic ships to support them....Alien Module 5: Solomani p.38
Mention is made that much Naval mid-range tonnage "in significant numbers" are hospital and troop transports to retake lost territory.
All of this capability comes at a price. Maintaining a large battle line and assault force has forced the Navy to cut back on medium-sized ships. The Solomani are short of cruisers, large fleet escorts and destroyers, which in peacetime often leads to larger or smaller ships doing these jobs, and in wartime limits their options for independent raids and strikes....Rather than use full-size escorts or cruisers, the Solomani rely on heavy patrol ships in the 800 to 2,000 ton range carrying a small Marine or Army jump troop contingent when patrolling the Aslan and Hiver frontiers, for exploration missions, for general anti-piracy operations.
Another reason the Confederation Navy has fewer cruisers, still unknown to Imperial Naval Intelligence, is the construction of two classes of planetoid-hulled vessels for specialized infiltration operations. Built in part with ‘black budget’ SolSec External Directorate funds, the concept is similar to the Imperial reconnaissance cruiser but intended to perform covert missions...-p.39
In the Mongoose text, it is later stated that many of the asteroid ships are heavy cruisers launched at sublight speeds with frozen crews towards Terra to prevent detection. Once there they park with in powered down states. They are there to retake Terra, when the time is right, which during the Rebellion Era they did fairly quickly.
0401 X55A670-A S he+ hi++ as va ith-- vr+ ne- so+ 733
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Re: Battleships or the various races?

Postby JBRocky » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:19 pm

Jame Rowe wrote:I agree that most major powers would have them, e.g. Solomani, Zhodani, K'Kree.

EDIT: I would also think that the Hivers would have some after the K'Kree war, primarily to counter the Centaurs - though mostly designed and crewed by their "subject" races. That, and they'd have them as a bluff against the Imps and the Sols.

Some Aslan clans would have a handful, as would a few of the Vargr states* that stick around long enough, and the Swordies and Darrians may have them depending on GM/story needs (though it'd be one of maybe a squadron total for those two).

*For Vargr, I'm willing to believe that there are a few nations which have citizens that are more like actual wolf families than not - e.g. they're constantly jockeying within the nation for position/charisma or what have you, but they're more devoted to the continuance of the nation than you'd expect. Though again, this is more of a thing for the specific GM and game group.
Yup sounds pretty good to me.
For the Aslan you could probably see some BB in some of the "29" clans since they have cash. But most of the clans probably stick with Cruisers and such since they practice more of a ritual war, and the fight on the Solomani border has always seemed more along the idea of raids to me, so smaller ships do better there.

For the Vargr I see the bigger more lasting states having them but you just might get some of the smaller ones with big ships since it seems like what a high charisma person might do.

I have always believed the K'Kree have them since everything is bigger out that way even though most of it might be taken up by living quarters and there for not as effective.

I would see the Hivers with a few since they had to build up a Navy to fight the K'kree. I would see these very automated and crewed by other races though.
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Re: Battleships or the various races?

Postby Reynard » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:50 am

If I remember correctly, the Hivers won their first, last and only war by changing their enemy rather than ships.
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Re: Battleships or the various races?

Postby Jame Rowe » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:18 pm

Reynard wrote:If I remember correctly, the Hivers won their first, last and only war by changing their enemy rather than ships.
Definitely, but who's to say that they didn't build a few of said big ships? If only for the purposes of keeping the K'Kree occupied long enough to make the changes. Psychotichistory takes time-you-know.

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Re: Battleships or the various races?

Postby Reynard » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:41 pm

I read Alien Module 7: Hivers for insight. They don't like violence and prefer other means and their navy organizations have few ships but they're advanced and powerful. With the size of their territory, they seem to rely on numbers rather than big ships which are drawn from other sector fleets. They consider their fleets deterrent forces and never offensive.

To Hivers, manipulation is a science and an art form when dealing with troublemakers such as K'kree and Solomani. The K'kree learned this the hard way.
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Re: Battleships or the various races?

Postby Jame Rowe » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:10 pm

Reynard wrote:I read Alien Module 7: Hivers for insight. They don't like violence and prefer other means and their navy organizations have few ships but they're advanced and powerful. With the size of their territory, they seem to rely on numbers rather than big ships which are drawn from other sector fleets. They consider their fleets deterrent forces and never offensive.

To Hivers, manipulation is a science and an art form when dealing with troublemakers such as K'kree and Solomani. The K'kree learned this the hard way.
Which is why any particular GM can have the Hivers having a few battleships - having them more as a deterrent than for any other reason. Something to show the K'Kree as a distraction while they do their thing.

If you as a GM don't want them to have such then they don't and that's fine. :)
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Re: Battleships or the various races?

Postby Reynard » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:51 pm

Works both ways.
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Re: Battleships of the various races?

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:31 am

Thanks for replying everyone! I realize I made two errors in my first post. I asked specifically for battleships, while I was really interrested in any form of multi-kilodton warships. From the answers I've gotten, the issue solved itself, thanks!

Also I more or less assumed every alien race would be some form of unified empire, silly me. I should know better, especially with the Vargr... But both the Imperium and the Zhodani do have a form of imperial navy, so to speak, right? Plus national/local navies of different sorts.

Also, while on the subject, I imagine Supplement 3: Fighting Ships would be a good buy for me to get a feel for what the various classes of warships might be capable of? Even if it 'only' covers imperial ships.
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Re: Battleships of the various races?

Postby Jeraa » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:57 pm

Annatar Giftbringer wrote:Also, while on the subject, I imagine Supplement 3: Fighting Ships would be a good buy for me to get a feel for what the various classes of warships might be capable of? Even if it 'only' covers imperial ships.
It can help. Though do note that half the book is deckplans for the 3 battleships/dreadnoughts in the book (Kokirrak, Plankwell, Tigres). The Tigres deckplans alone take up 37 pages of the of the 126 page book.

Sector Fleet, while it doesn't have any actual ship stats, does have some info on the different types of ships. Like common tonnages for ships of that type, and general info about armaments.
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Re: Battleships of the various races?

Postby Reynard » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:25 pm

The various book do have examples from the other races.
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Re: Battleships of the various races?

Postby Nerhesi » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:27 pm

Reynard wrote:The various book do have examples from the other races.
Which ones? Id love to see large capital examples for zhodani, aslan, etc..
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Re: Battleships of the various races?

Postby Jeraa » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:39 pm

Nerhesi wrote:
Reynard wrote:The various book do have examples from the other races.
Which ones? Id love to see large capital examples for zhodani, aslan, etc..
As far as I can tell, there are no large ships stated out for anyone besides the Imperials. At least in a Mongoose Traveler book. The biggest non-Imperials ships I could find all appear in the various race books.

Alien Module 1: Aslan – 2000 ton assault carrier
Alien Module 2: Vargr – 800 ton frigate
Alien Module 3: Darrians – 600 ton passenger liner
Alien Module 4: Zhodani – 2000 ton frontier cruiser, council cruiser
Alien Module 5: Solomani – 1000 ton bulk carrier

Supplement 10: Merchants and cruisers has some ships from the other races, but they are all smaller than the ones above.

Anything bigger than that, you would have to go to a prior version of Traveller.
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Re: Battleships of the various races?

Postby Nerhesi » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:09 am

Jeraa wrote:
Nerhesi wrote:
Reynard wrote:The various book do have examples from the other races.
Which ones? Id love to see large capital examples for zhodani, aslan, etc..
As far as I can tell, there are no large ships stated out for anyone besides the Imperials. At least in a Mongoose Traveler book. The biggest non-Imperials ships I could find all appear in the various race books.

Alien Module 1: Aslan – 2000 ton assault carrier
Alien Module 2: Vargr – 800 ton frigate
Alien Module 3: Darrians – 600 ton passenger liner
Alien Module 4: Zhodani – 2000 ton frontier cruiser, council cruiser
Alien Module 5: Solomani – 1000 ton bulk carrier

Supplement 10: Merchants and cruisers has some ships from the other races, but they are all smaller than the ones above.

Anything bigger than that, you would have to go to a prior version of Traveller.
That I dont mind at all.. what prior versions would have capitals for other races? :)
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Re: Battleships of the various races?

Postby Jeraa » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:51 am

Nerhesi wrote:That I dont mind at all.. what prior versions would have capitals for other races? :)
The only official ones I know of all appear in MegaTraveller. The Rebellion Sourcebook contains a 30k ton Vargr battlecruiser, a 10k ton Vargr heavy cruiser, a 50k ton Aslan transport, and an 10k ton Aslan cruiser. As far as I know, no official big ships have been made for the Zhodani. Though I could be mistaken.

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