2022 Donosev

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Bense
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2022 Donosev

Postby Bense » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:46 pm

The Donosev survey scout in the 2022 updated book seems to be incorrect. The revision has a sensor station, labs (2), 5 more staterooms, 5 extra tons of common area, and 11 tons more cargo than the High Guard version. Unfortunately that means the listed components add up to 445 tons.
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gilthy
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Re: 2022 Donosev

Postby gilthy » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:26 pm

I think the Full Hangar (50 tons) is incorrectly stated, as it should take 50 tons (for the space it offers) + 10% = 55 tons, instead of 100 tons.

And if you take that into account, the total is 400 tons again.

I briefly thought the extra tonnage was for the extra Cutter module, but that has its own 33 ton (30 ton for the module + 10%) line on the table.

While the deck plan for the Donosev in the FAQ & Errata ( under https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/downloads.htm ) has been updated to the new table (as has the deck plan in the PDF, the one in the printed book has 5 staterooms ), this error apparently has not yet been caught in either source.
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Re: 2022 Donosev

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:32 pm

gilthy wrote: I think the Full Hangar (50 tons) is incorrectly stated, as it should take 50 tons (for the space it offers) + 10% = 55 tons, instead of 100 tons.
Full Hangar is +100% = 100 Dt.
Docking Space is +10% = 55 Dt.
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Re: 2022 Donosev

Postby Geir » Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:45 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:32 pm
gilthy wrote: I think the Full Hangar (50 tons) is incorrectly stated, as it should take 50 tons (for the space it offers) + 10% = 55 tons, instead of 100 tons.
Full Hangar is +100% = 100 Dt.
Docking Space is +10% = 55 Dt.
I think it's safe to assume that docking space makes more sense than a full hangar, since the only real need for a full hangar would be to overhaul the cutter while on a mission. Plus, wasting more than 10% of the ship on it doesn't make a great deal of sense.
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Re: 2022 Donosev

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:17 pm

Geir wrote: I think it's safe to assume that docking space makes more sense than a full hangar, since the only real need for a full hangar would be to overhaul the cutter while on a mission. Plus, wasting more than 10% of the ship on it doesn't make a great deal of sense.
I agree that it is questionable to use 133 Dt / 400 Dt = 33% of the ship for small craft hangars. But it's a long range scout, so some space for maintenance is probably a good idea. I would probably use a couple of smaller small craft, with one Docking Space and one Full Hangar.

At a guess it's just a way of wasting space to get it close to the CT original.
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Re: 2022 Donosev

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:19 pm

So Core second printing differs in regard to the Donosev class stats in High Guard?
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Re: 2022 Donosev

Postby gilthy » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:45 pm

Core 2022 added:
Sensor Station (1 ton)
Laboratories x2 (8 ton)
Staterooms x5 (20 ton)
Common Areas (5 ton)
Cargo (11 ton)

... but forgot to make room for those 45 tons, so the version in the new book is "overweight".

As of why I didn't think it was supposed to be a full hangar: I was thinking of the deck plans in Gurps Traveller: First In and Grand Survey from DGP (that last one is where the Donosev first appeared, if I remember right). Oh, and it's in Mongoose Traveller v1 Compendium 3 as well (and probably other places).

In those deck plans, and the front and side views, the modular cutter is only partially enclosed inside the hull, which makes it unlikely it's a Full Hangar.
For some reason, the MgT2 deck plans are changed from all the previous ones (which are all pretty similar), though the stats and the outside still resemble the original design.

The older plans (and stats) do have 10 or 11 staterooms, 15 to 30 tons of cargo, often some armour, and (depending on the version) at least one and in other cases more than one laboratory, and plenty of common areas (lounge, galley, etc).

Also, having a Full Hangar (instead of a Docking Space) pushes the tonnage up to 445 (with a Docking Space, it is 400 dTons).
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Re: 2022 Donosev

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:54 pm

If you use the Broadsword as the yardstick, docking space would be fifty five tonnes, you can switch out modules internally.

Funny, no extra modules are mentioned in High Guard's mercenary cruiser.

If I had to speculate, a full hangar might be required to switch modules internally.
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Re: 2022 Donosev

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:12 am

gilthy wrote: ... but forgot to make room for those 45 tons, so the version in the new book is "overweight".

As of why I didn't think it was supposed to be a full hangar:
Yes, that seems likely.
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Re: 2022 Donosev

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:15 am

Condottiere wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:54 pm
If you use the Broadsword as the yardstick, ..., you can switch out modules internally.

Undefined in MgT, but defined in the original description:
JTAS#8 wrote: Assume that a fuel skim module is currently installed in a cutter and that a passenger module is stored within the ship. The cutter leaves the well and detaches the fuel skim module, leaving it lying free in space. It then reenters the cutter well and attaches the passenger module. The cutter leaves the well and detaches the passenger module; it then reattaches the fuel skimmer and reenters the cutter well, finally depositing the fuel skimmer within the interior of the ship. At this point, the cutter can leave the well and attach the passenger module for needed operations. The procedure can become a shuffling match, and the ship captain must designate the exact placement of modules for use in any current mission.
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Re: 2022 Donosev

Postby Condottiere » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:57 pm

By the time they're finished, the war is over.

Was there a rationale for the changes in the Donosev class?

I think the Classic version had a dispersed structure hull configuration.
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Bense
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Re: 2022 Donosev

Postby Bense » Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:20 pm

Looks like the best solution is to reduce the full hanger for the cutter to docking space, which is what the errata shows on the deckplan and the changed deckplan is in the currently-downloadable version. They didn't update the stat block though.
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