Ship Design Philosophy

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:47 pm

Starships: Or Skipships

70. Unfortunately, much like a prototype would fill that empty hole, six hundred percent cost dampens any enthusiasm for it.

71. And you can't double budget.

72. Otherwise you could have a hundred parsec tonne jump drive at basically eleven and a half tonnes at basically half price, total 8.4375 megaschmuckers.

73. Or thirty power power point inefficiently energized two hundred parsec tonners.

74. The third option for penalties, which in the vast majority of cases isn't worth mentioning, is late jump.

75. In theory, I wouldn't mind going one hundred fifty times further from Terran diameter to jump.

76. However, the elephant in the room is that the Sun's jump shadow extends fifty percent further, which cuts off the inner planets completely.

77. The only advantage it would give you is if you like using precipitous precipitation as your principal means of exiting jumpspace.

78. So if you can't leave a vacuum, you need a filler material.

79. Unfortunately, the only thing that comes to mind are capacitors.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:46 pm

Starships: Or Skipships

80. Unfortunately, capacitors are the most expensive subcomponent in a jump drive.

81. If you deduct that from a jump drive, default overhead and core costs the same at one and one eighth megaschmuckers per tonne.

82. At twenty five percent discount, 843'750 schmuckers per tonne for an energy inefficient jump drive's naked core and overhead tonnage.

83. Capacitors from energy inefficient retain their original buffers of fifty power points at seventy five percent cost, the increased cost basically pushed to the increased power input, from whatever source it's pulled from, at two and a quarter megaschmuckers per tonne.

84. Whereas increased size would spread fifty points over one and a quarter tonnes, so basically forty power points per tonne, at one and four eighths megaschmuckers per tonne.

85. Default cost of capacitors are sixty kiloschmuckers per power point, energy inefficient and late jumpers forty five kiloschmuckers per point point, and increased size forty five kiloschmuckers per power point.

86. So if you could mix and match, specific in regard to maintaining a minimum volume of ten tonnes, I'd use increased size capacitors.

87. So five tonnes of naked increased size overhead, two and a half tonnes of naked increased size core (hundred parsec tonnes, ten power points), half a tonne of increased size capacitors (sixteen power point buffer), leaving a balance of two tonnes.

88. If you could fill that void with batteries, it would also control power spikes, assuming they exist.

89. Technological level ten batteries cost a hundred kiloschmuckers per tonne and have forty power points, and you could have two tonnes worth, which could be used as emergency power, assuming you're allowed to fill the balance that way, and the jump drive remains undamaged, essentially giving the jump drive an inherent power source.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:17 pm

Starships: Or Skipships

90. Besides triple decreased size jump drives, triple efficient jump drives would lower energy requirement to twenty five percent from default.

91. Energy requirement has never been a real hindrance in Mongoose Second, as you can source the power from anywhere except solar panelling.

92. You could shut down basic power in the starship o everywhere except the jump drive, power plant, and bridge.

93. Or just channel it over time into a battery, which would then be the primary source.

94. Especially since the jump drive is only activated just before transition, and a turn later shut down, not requiring to be switched on during transition.

95. Early jump only brings a marginal benefit.

96. Stealth tends to only benefit clandestine and military operators.

97. Decreased fuel is overall a half a percent decrease in volume for the starship, per jump factor, per application.

98. At it's optimum at technological level fifteen, triple application at jump factor three is four and a half percent extra volume, double application at jump factor four is four percent, and single application at jump factor five, is two and a half percent.

99. Decreased size jump drive, triple application at jump factor three is two and a quarter percent (and one and a half tonnes), double application at jump factor four is two percent (and half tonne), and one application at jump factor five is one and a quarter percent (and a half tonne).
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:15 pm

Starships: Or Skipships

100. Having established that in terms of cost you're better off with an Aldi vanilla jump drive, and an interstellar rock, next up would be the optimal volume.

101. At the scale we're looking at, there are three general categories, sub hundred tonners, hundred tonne plus, and two hundred tonne minus.

102. Sub hundred tonners would be taking engineering, the bridge, fuel tanks and minimal accommodation, and add pods, external cargo, and clamped containers as required, to a minimum of hundred tonnes, and to a maximum of jump drive potential.

103. Hundred tonners already meet the minimum requirement, plus would be either an increased hull size, and/or external attachments.

104. Two hundred tonne minus takes the position to use a hull based on the optimum potential of the jump drive.

105. Since in this specific case, it's probably better to have everything under one roof.

106. Even if you have to sacrifice twenty percent of volume, since the point is maximizing the minimum requirements.

107. So therefore, it's a ten tonne technological level nine budgetted energy inefficient jump drive in a technological level ten constructed two hundred tonne planetoid.

108. We'll use the free trader as benchmark.

109. Going on the assumption you're unlikely to have a full cargo load or passengers.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:38 pm

Starships: Or Skipships

110. On to the rest of the engineering compartment.

111. The cheapest source of power is the local star.

112. At two hundred tonnes, that's a requirement of a default forty power points for basic systems, and another twenty power points for a monogravitational manoeuvre drive, for a total of sixty power points.

113. If we base it on a default early fusion reactor at technological level eight, that's three fifths of a tonne of solar panelling, a tad above the minimum half a tonne.

114. Three fifths of a tonne of solar panelling is sixty kiloschmuckers, and consumes no fuel.

115. You're still going to need a fusion reactor to supply power for basic systems during transition, since you can't use solar panelling while in a jump bubble.

116. Default basic systems for a two hundred hull is forty power points, minimum twenty.

117. However, I rather doubt that twenty percent of a planetoid needs basic systems, nor likely the fuel tanks, or at least the ones dedicated to the jump drive.

118. That leaves one hundred forty tonnes, at twenty eight power points, fourteen minimum.

119. So that's a two and four fifths tonne technological level eight early fusion reactor, or at least, one and two fifth tonnes.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:47 pm

Starships: Or Skipships

120. Technological level nine restricts manoeuvre drives acceleration of factor one.

121. Cost is default two megaschmuckers per tonne, which at default for two hundred tonnes is two tonnes at four megaschmuckers, and require twenty power points.

122. Buy it at Aldi, and at twenty five percent discount, the budgetted variant is three megaschmukers.

123. The basic choice of disadvantage would either be increased size at one hundred twenty five percent or energy inefficiency at one hundred thirty percent.

124. Increased size would mean to maintain factor one acceleration, volume would be two and a half tonnes, and the actual total price tag would be three and three quarters megaschmuckers, which makes the price saving a tad questionable.

125. Energy inefficiency would require twenty six power points, which I don't think you can squeeze out of the solar panelling.

126. Apply the twenty power point allocation to the manoeuvre drive, and it runs at 76.92307692307692 percent efficiency, which is a tad above the seventy percent Terran standard gravity minimum requirement for the more or less normal functioning of a human body.

127. If you can source power from other energy creators, such as batteries or the fusion reactor meant for transitionary power, you can make up the difference and restore acceleration back to the full factor one.

128. You could make a case that 0.76 gee falls under minimal manoeuvring.

129. Or at the other end of the stick, any application of efficiently energizing the manoeuvre drive could allow for accelerations at 1.333 gravities, 2.0 gravities and with three applications, 4.0 gravities.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:13 pm

Image

Inspiration: 3D Printed Traveller Scout Ship - Review

The Type-S Scout/Courier has been an iconic spacecraft for Traveller players for over 40 years. Now 2nd Dynasty has teamed up with Marc Miller to bring a 3D-printable version that's to scale with 28mm miniatures. It features three decks, sliding doors, folding landing gear, a rotating turret, in 25.3 inches long, OpenLOCK compatible, and can accept a lighting kit for the engines and running lights.

Find it on their campaign page (with tons of add-ons): https://www.myminifactory.com/crowdfu...
The 2nd Dynasty Website: https://www.2nddynasty.com/
The Evan Designs lighting kit (mine is the Ice Blue): https://evandesigns.com/products/2ndd...
Don’t have a 3D Printer? Then check out a list of Officially Licensed Printers on the Campaign Page: https://www.myminifactory.com/crowdfu...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCIn30dPTnM



It's like you were there.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:14 pm

Image

Inspiration: Traveller: Spacecraft Construction

Let's build a space ship! Join me on a detailed walkthrough and review of the Mongoose Traveller 2nd Edition (MGT2) rules as we construct a 100-ton Scout Ship. By the end, you should have the concepts down so you can begin storming the galaxy in your own custom spacecraft.
The construction rules can be found in the 2022-Update Corebook or in High Guard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylYmiTm1GV8



1. Dispersed structure - double percentages for armour.

2. Power plant fuel - minimum appears to be now one tenth of a tonne.

3. Life support costs - still unclear, in regard to other accommodation options.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:27 pm

Spaceships: Accommodations and Life Support Costs

1. Come to think of it, how much life support costs are required for the ship's cat?

2. And if there is a rat infestation onboard, how much does that cost?
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:32 pm

Spaceships: Accommodations, Life Support Costs and Low Berths

1. And while we're at that, why does using a low berth cost a hundred schmuckers?

2. Because the power is free, the equipment is covered under monthly maintenance, and we've already paid the salaries of the crew.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:31 pm

Starships: Or Skipships

130. Apparently, the minimum size of a power plant now corresponds to the output of one power point.

131. Which is great when going camping.

132. The thing about increased size discount only really works if the final price tag if the calculation is based on the original volume, not the adjusted one.

133. Exception to this is when you have a minimum volume, and you don't really need all that performance.

134. So since the diesel engine sucks too much fuel, and while atomic reactor fuel is unrealistically curtailed endurance and rather expensive.

135. We'll have to stick with fusion.

136. Since the base construction for the jump factor one skipship would be technological level nine, we can easily source an early fusion technological level eight fusion reactor.

137. Again, if you can leverage that into a cheaper wholesale cost, who knows?

138. An application of increased size ten power points over one and a quarter tonnes, at 468'750 schmuckers, saving 31'250 schmuckers at the expense of a quarter tonne.

139. Energy inefficiency would be one and a third tonne to produce ten power points, at half a megaschmuckers is basically worse than running around in circles, considering the original cost of half a megaschmucker for one tonne with ten power points; I know it doesn't make sense, but when I inquired, the insistence was that cost is always based on the final tonnage.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:45 am

Starships: Or Skipships

140. Speaking of minimums, the skipship is based on a two hundred tonne hull configuration.

141. That's the maximum size that a ten tonne bridge can effectively control.

142. If the default displacement tonne is fifty kiloschmuckers, an additional increase of size of a quarter tonne would mean you have to allocate an twelve and a half kiloschmuckers to that quarter tonne; it's a form of opportunity cost.

143. However, since we're using an aerated ironick hull at three and three quarters kiloschmuckers per usable tonne, that's an opportunity cost of 937.50 schmuckers.

144. This is specific to the skipship concept, since the assumption is that neither the cargo nor the passenger capacity is likely ever to be filled.

145. So there's complete justification in shaving every cost and cutting every corner, since volume will never be completely utilized.

146. Minimum size for solar panelling is half a tonne, the ratio between that and the power plant is one to ten.

147. That means you could have a five tonne solar panelled supplemented early fusion power plant, fuel usage reduced by seventy five percent.

148. Half a tonne of fuel, divided by four, one eight of a tonne for four weeks endurance.

149. So a budgetted increased size technological level eight five tonne early fusion reactor produces forty power points is one and seven eighths megaschmuckers, plus half a tonne solar panelling at fifty kiloschmuckers.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:05 pm

Starships: Or Skipships

150. Since dual cockpit can control upto two kilotonnes of spacecraft, so far, seems the automatic choice for the skipship.

151. A full bridge would cost a megaschmuckers for two hundred tonnes.

152. Whereas a dual cockpit is fifteen kiloschmuckers and two and a half tonnes.

153. Which leaves us with the specific functions involved with jumping.

154. That can be done with a Specialist Control Centre, which costs the equivalent of a small bridge, which means half of that of a full bridge.

155. So, six tonnes at half a megaschmucker.

156. Basic sensors would be inherent in the dual cockpit, lidar and radar, no tonnage, but with a minus four disadvantage.

157. Sensor upgrade would require power and tonnage, but could be activated only when you require an active sweep.

158. Cheapest computer is technological level seven bandwidth five, at thirty kiloschmuckers.

159. Software would be manoeuvre zero, library and jump control one.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:50 pm

Starships: Or Skipships

160. I think I've covered the basics, so here are the add ons.

161. Fuel scoops cost a megaschmucker, but I think you can sip water with rubber hoses, or break up ice with pickaxes.

162. One tonne of fuel processors require a power point to operate, can convert twenty tonnes of unrefined fuel, and cost fifty kiloschmuckers, requiring four days to convert forty tonnes worth, enough for a monojump.

163. You can always use an additional airlock at two tonnes and two hundred kiloschmuckers.

164. Since you have an unstreamlined hull, having a smallcraft tends to be a good idea, but carefully manoeuvring on thrusters should allow a safe descent on an atmosphered world.

165. Biospheres can make use of the cheap real estate, but at least in the short term, directly purchasing life support appears to be the more economical option.

166. Chances of needing escape capsules are slim.

167. On the other hand, you probably do need to install a medical bay and an autodoc, but that's four tonnes and two megaschmuckers, and needs a power point.

168. That the same for the library, but interestingly costs double that of a medical bay; between the two, I'd opt for the medical bay.

169. I think you can have a three tonne workshop, that allows one Traveller a bonus of plus two to mechanic, would cost four hundred fifty kiloschmuckers.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:14 pm

Starships: Or Skipships

170. It seems a sort of universal understanding that starships are allowed to be armed.

171. My opinion is that one tonne turrets are tolerated, but barbettes are looked at askance.

172. Bays that resemble weapon platforms even more so.

173. I've always thought that bays are a permanent part of the hull, but apparently not.

174. That makes the fact that they have no separate cost, like turrets, from their weapon systems, literally free.

175. And we like free stuff.

176. You can utilize bays as both storage for vehicles and general cargo.

177. Proper placement of the bay(s) would allow an immediate access of whatever had been stored in there.

178. Could be that cargo containers and weapon systems are constructed within a standard that allows placement of both within the bays.

179. Where was I going with this; oh yeah, not that it would matter, but make the cargo hold and the weapon bay interchangeable.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:42 pm

Starships: Or Skipships

180. Selection of weapon systems would be between two bays, two hardpointed turrets, two hardpointed barbettes, two mounted fixtures, three firmpointed barbettes and/or six firmpointed single turrets.

181. Since in any manoeuvring contest, the Freetater will get off worse, not much point in energy weapons in mounted fixtures.

182. However, guided ordnance that can change direction should be alright.

183. I was looking at my computer, and thought that the Potato class would be a fitting description for the skipship.

184. But it doesn't rhyme, but for that we have Tolkien.

185. Very tempted to call it Friedtater.

186. But the cheapest option that's applicable in general is twenty percent increased size, which cuts cost by twenty five percent.

187. That probably requires a larger turret, though a larger turret can take standard non enlarged weapon systems, and non standard shrunken ones.

188. The problem with firmpointed single turrets, is that each still takes up a tonne and requires a power point.

189. Simplest option is two triple turrets with pulse lasers, being both offensive and defensive.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:26 pm

Starships: Or Skipships

190. Freetater subclasses can take advantage of it's cheap hull.

191. This can take the form of either hull armour and/or modularization.

192. It seems doubtful that you can podularize an ironick hull.

193. Modularization can utilize upto seventy five percent of the hull.

194. That's five percent short of maximum eighty percent usable volume.

195. Like ye modular cutter, it might be faster just to drop off a modular section filled with cargo, than going through the usual routine of docking and and unloading through the cargo hatch.

196. Modularization is cheaper than externalling clamping cargo containers.

197. Each modular tonne would have a premium of three hundred schmuckers.

198. Thirty tonnes would be a premium of nine kiloschmuckers, a one tonne clamp would be half a megaschmucker.

199. And an external cargo mount is thirty kiloschmuckers for thirty tonnes.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:37 pm

Skipship: (Almost) Freetater


. Technological level
.. nine

. Hull
.. two hundred tonnes
.. planetoid
... nickel iron
... wastage
.... twenty percent
... armour
.... organic
.... factor
..... two
... streamlined
.... non
... light
... hull points
.... forty six
.. total cost
... 600 kilostarbux

. Bridge
.. dual cockpit
... tonnage
.... two and a half tonnes
... cost
.... fifteen kilostarbux
.. specialist control centre
... jumping
... tonnage
.... six tonnes
... dice modifier
.... plus one
... cost
.... half a megastarbux
... total tonnage
.... eight and a half tonnes
.. total cost
... 515 kilostarbux

. Computer
.. bandwidth
... five
.. cost
... thirty kilostarbux
.. software
... manoeuvre
.... factor
..... zero
.... cost
..... free
... library
.... factor
..... zero
.... cost
..... free
... jump control
.... factor
..... one
.... cost
..... one hundred kilostarbux
.. total cost
... 130 kilostarbux

. Sensors
.. basic
... lidar
... radar
... dice modifier
.... minus four
... tonnage
.... zero tonnes
... power input
.... zero power points
.. total cost
... free

. Engineering
.. jump drive
... budget
.... energy inefficient
... power input
.... twenty six power points
... tonnage
.... ten tonnes
... cost
.... eleven and a quarter megastarbux
.. manoeuvre drive
... budget
.... energy inefficient
... power input
.... twenty six power points
... tonnage
.... two tonnes
... cost
.... three megastarbux
.. power plant
... early fusion
... budget
.... increased size
... solar panelling
.... tonnage
..... five hundred kilogrammes
... fuel consumption
....
... power output
...... forty power points
... solar panelling
.... tonnage
..... six hundred kilogrammes
.. fuel
... tonnes
.... twenty two

. Armaments

. Accommodations
.. staterooms
.. common areas
.. airlocks
.. cargo hatches

. Additional systems
.. fuel processor
... twenty tonnes per day
.... one power point
... tonnage
.... one tonne
... cost
.... fifty kilostarbux

. Cargo
.. tonnage

160-8.5-10-2.5-5-0.5-0.6-22-1= 109.9

work in progress
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:43 pm

Image

Spaceships: Hulls, Radiation and Space Powered Cooling May Be the Future of Energy

Space powered cooling may be the future of energy. Our cooling systems are heating the Earth as they consume fossil-fueled energy and release greenhouse gases. Air Conditioning use is expected to increase from about 3.6 billion units to 15 billion by 2050. So, how do we exit this cold room trap? What if I told you we could tap into space for electricity free air conditioning and other refrigeration tech?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq8xDXkbXZs



1. Turn the hull itself into an infra red radiator.

2. Paint the outside with an ultra white coating.
Condottiere
Mongoose Superior
Posts: 10631
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:51 pm

3. Actually, a reflec coating should be even more efficient, but at a hundred kiloschmuckers per tonne, overpriced.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AnotherDilbert, Arkathan, Zens and 11 guests