VAS Forum

Discuss the Victory at Sea range of naval games.

Moderator: rcbecker1

Are you interested in seeing this happen?

Poll ended at Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:30 pm

Would you help or support this?
2
100%
Not interested
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 2
rcbecker1
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VAS Forum

Postby rcbecker1 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:30 pm

What can we as Mongoose Infantry or just players do to improve the forum in regard to VAS?
1. I personaly would like more support and a way for us to improve the rules (just fine tune them remove the crew since this is what Mongoose planned)

2. Learn how to submit articles to S&P.

3.Maybe see a sub forum for Publishing Mods of hard to find ships or pics of our fleets as they expand .

4.Clean up the forum a little there's alot of questions unanswered.

5. Work on building the VAS croud and players. (maybe Mongoose will help with this by support I understand this is a side game but lets make it there biggest selling game.)

6. Create a more exstensive ship list with sheets being available to download similar to other Companies.
"Official Naval Boffin"
afilter
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Postby afilter » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:14 am

I made this post May 11 2010:
afilter wrote:Let me start off by stating up front I do like the rules that are provided with both VAS and AoD books. I currently own VaS, oob and AoD. I bought them when I was deployed and had some time to read while I was considering a new Naval Mini rule set.

At that point my naval gaming experience had been WoTC War at Sea at simplistic end of the spectrum and something called "In Harms Way" at the other end of the spectrum. I mostly game with my young sons who love WaS (which we have extensively modified with some houserules). My thinking was soon they will be ready for a bit more , but the other rule sets are a little more complex than what they are interested in/willing to devote time to in order to appease dear old dad. ;)

VaS seemed like a good alternative while allowing us to use our huge collection of WoTC Minis or the large collection of 1/6000 I had started to build. I picked up AoD at the time as well as I always dreamed of venturing into WWI.

As mentioned I liked the rules in general. I am by no means an experienced player as I have only played a few times and that was with the benefit of an experienced group.

The reason I am not an experienced player and may have never actaully played at all is a few issues that I would like to address to possibly improve this game for the future. I have heard these from other potential players as well that have not tried the game as a result our outright trashed it in other forums.

1. The books are a bit difficult to reference as some things seem out of place. This can be fixed with a good player aid which I found via other players and has helped greatly with the flow of the game and speeding things up. I strongly feel Mongoose should provide this as a pull out on card stock with every book sold or at least as a free PDF download here.

2. Lack of useable ship data sheets. The ship data provided in the books gives the basic information, but IMO is not useable for game purposes. Mongoose again relys on the community to produce their own. Fortunately for a new player like me there are some great ones out there if you are motivated to look and ask that people are willing to share. This is not the case for AoD so far. My thought is that Mongoose should provide a standardized format along with pre-made data sheets for every class that is curremtly in the game if not every ship in that class. My suggestion would be to provide these as a download. preferably for free, but I would even be willing to pay an modest fee if it came with free updates as new material is added.

If Mongoose did these two things I think it would transform these from good games to Great games. As it is now it is very difficult for a new player who may already have fleets assembeld t just pick up the rules and start playing without first creating/finding the forms to support play.

I was recently encouraged to check out a set of rules called Naval Thunder which are available for download purchase only for about half the price as the hard cover books for VAS and AoD.

Since I was not committed to AoD I decided to check out the WWI version. The rules are OK, but do not include anything for on board aircraft or subs. The one thing they do provide is an excellent ship data base that is pre-formated for easy printing to be used again and again. It comes in a PDF as well as an excel work book. In the excel format can literally type in the code for the ship(not just the class) you want and the data pops up in a printable 3 to a page format for easy use.

If Mongoose was able to replicate this file with VAS and AoD data sheets I think they would blow away all competition and turn VaS and AoD into a great set of rules not only for the old salts, but for those newer to Naval gaming as well.

Before Mongoose invest any more time in creating new data I would like to see the existing data released in a new format. I truly think this would benefit and grow the community as a whole.

Anyway, that is my $.02 from the consumer perspective. ;)
At the time I posted the above I was hopeful something was coming from mongoose. That was 7 months ago...unfortunately nothing new has come to be.

I have since further invested in Naval Thunder and am very happy with the results as it provides an excellent means to simulate surface combat from Pre-dreads through WWII. I do find it lacking in the Planes and subs fro WWII, but it provides a decent mechanic if this is part of the scenario you are playing.

I still have my VaS/AoD books and I will still check in here, but without new and improved resources for VaS I just cannot see myself converting back. If anything I will look to add some of the air/sub mechanics to NT myself.

I wish you the best in this effort as I know you are heavily invested in VaS. If something comes of it I will definately be lookign to see how it compares. In the end I only have so much game time and I will focus my efforts to playing when I can. ;)
Aaron
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Postby Lincolnlog » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:41 am

This is a really good game system. It does suffer from some organization issues, and some mechanics could use improvement. But this would be a worthwhile project if Mongoose would allow it.
rcbecker1
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Postby rcbecker1 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:09 pm

Agreed Myself and Robert have rewrote the rules in MS Word. We streamlined the rules made a few changes based on play and other imput. Added Straffing for planes which destroys crew if you play with crew. We changed Torpedo rules based on our own ideas and David Manleys thoughts from his house rules suggestions. The Critical chart has been changed and updated.
Im still working on a more complete ship and plane list but my only source for stats is David Manley and he only ventures through once in awhile. If you already own the rules and would like a copy of our updates please PM me and Ill help you out.
rcbecker1
"Official Naval Boffin"
rcbecker1
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Postby rcbecker1 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:11 pm

Something Im going to look into is can we play VAS over the net on the forum.
Can we use a dice roller maps not hard this is my next task.
rcbecker1
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DM
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Postby DM » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:32 pm

Geez, you blokes are really doing a good job shaming me to get off my fat arse and get some stuff done :)

OK, I admit I've been a bit crap recently, and my attention has been drawn to other things occasionally (15mm Sudan colonial and Wings of War, if anyone's interested). However, I will make an effort to get the AoD supplement sorted out. Its nearly there, but I need some time to sort out the final fleet lists. I'm pondering how much should actually go in - the fleet lists are a given, and there will be a new campaign map covering the Adriatic, and rules for WW1 coastal craft. Oh, and an errata that captures all the stuf thats been talked about here in the past. I'm also working on operational level campaign rules, but I'm not sure whether they'll make it in. any thoughts from the readers here? And, apart from that, is there anything else you'd like to see?

Fleet included are: Italy, France, Austria, USA and Japan.

On the subject of VAS - I've been speaking to Matt about some ideas on how to proceed. There are some irons in the fire, but I don't want to say too much (mainly because I've forgotten where we got to in our chats!)
DM's naval website, now moved to the NWS site
http://www.navalwargamessociety.org/nav ... links.html
Co-author "Order of Battle"
Author, "Age of Dreadnoughts"
Bloke who paints VAS ships for Matt
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rcbecker1
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Postby rcbecker1 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:41 am

Happily to say Im glad AOD is getting stuff but Im a WWII man myself.
Unfortunaletly VAS has a lot of holes. Mostly in ships and some planes. Theres no way to easily get ship stats or sheets. I would also like to cleanup the material and add more stuff to allow players more options Expanded Coastal fights, Missions, More scenarios ect. which we can post here. I have worked heavily on the rules with a few other people and am very happy with what came out of the project, but I feel its not my place to share. The few people that have it I made sure bought the rule books first as to not effect Mongoose. But I think theres so much we can do since there is so much more computition out there now than there was 2 years ago.
MI rcbecker1, Huge VAS fan boy (love my ships)
"Official Naval Boffin"
rcbecker1
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Postby rcbecker1 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:44 am

DM wrote:Geez, you blokes are really doing a good job shaming me to get off my fat arse and get some stuff done. OK, I admit I've been a bit crap recently, and my attention has been drawn to other things occasionally (15mm Sudan )
Im a big Sudan fan myself. I also do Patans North west frontier .
Ray
Last edited by rcbecker1 on Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Official Naval Boffin"
rcbecker1
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Postby rcbecker1 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:52 am

DM wrote: On the subject of VAS - I've been speaking to Matt about some ideas on how to proceed. There are some irons in the fire, but I don't want to say too much (mainly because I've forgotten where we got to in our chats!)
Remember the MI guys we are here to help and support, maybe be invovled.You guys can approach us with questions, subject, or suggestions.
I know playtesting was along time ago but some of us would like to be invovled before testing. Find out what the players of your and Mongooses game want in there game. Remember a game that has what players want will always sell better than a game that you want and they dont need. I meen no offense by this but I have seen many games put out with what the makers thought was cool but not the players and there games arent around any more.
Ray :D
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DM
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Postby DM » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:47 am

The AOD supplement is something I've been working on for ages, as well as something that a LOT of people have been asking for so I have a duty to crack on and get it sorted first. After that (or even before that) I guess its up to Matt and the team at MGP to decide what course to follow. However, I am pretty caertain that me is most appreciative of the offer of help (as am I), and I'm confident that those offers will be taken up at some stage :)
DM's naval website, now moved to the NWS site
http://www.navalwargamessociety.org/nav ... links.html
Co-author "Order of Battle"
Author, "Age of Dreadnoughts"
Bloke who paints VAS ships for Matt
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