Battle of Coronel

Discuss the Victory at Sea range of naval games.

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Battle of Coronel

Postby afilter » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:22 pm

This is part of the British squadron that fought Von Spee's Cruiser Squadron at the Battle of Coronel ( 1 Nov 1914). This battle preceeded The Battle of the Falklands and was a decisive victory for the Germans sinking two British warships with two escaping.

5 Weeks later the German Squadron would suffer the same fate at the hands of the British Battle Cruisers Invincible and Inflexible that had just arrived at port Stanely unknow to Von Spee when he decided to raid Stanley instead of by passining it on his way back to Germany.

Models are 1/2400 Panzershiffe resin cast.

HMS Good Hope:
Image

HMS Monmouth:
Image

HMS Glasgow(survived battle):
Image

HMS Otranto (Armed Merchant Cruiser also survived):
Image

HMS Canopus:
Image

HMS Canopus was an old Pre-dreadnought that did not actually make it to the battle of Coronel due slow speed and engine problems. Had it been there Von Spee would have likely been forced to withdraw when faced with HMS Canopus old but powerful 12" guns. HMS Canopus was actually at Port Stanley when Spee's Cruisers arrived. Spee immediately decided to withdraw when he saw the unexpected tripod masts of British capital ships. HMS Canopus was intentionally grounded to provide a more stable firing platform and fired some of the opening shots of the battle at Spee's squadron while the battle cruisers and cruiser made steam to begin the pursuit.
Last edited by afilter on Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rcbecker1 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Sweet man you do some good work.
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Postby Wishbone » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:47 am

Beautiful ships!

I'm not sold on whether or not Canopus would've made a difference at Coronal though. She was worn out, her guns worn smooth, not fast enough to get close, and not fitted for long range firing. They turned her into a battery at Stanley, which was probably the best they could do with her if you ask me.
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Postby afilter » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:11 am

Wishbone wrote:Beautiful ships!

I'm not sold on whether or not Canopus would've made a difference at Coronal though. She was worn out, her guns worn smooth, not fast enough to get close, and not fitted for long range firing. They turned her into a battery at Stanley, which was probably the best they could do with her if you ask me.
You are probably right. Stat wise it might make for a good "what if" scenario with Spee giving chase to HMS Glasgow and HMS Otranto and running into HMS Canopus.
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Postby thomaso827 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:16 pm

An earlier thread mentioned the HMS Carnarvon being there at a distance of about 20 miles behind the rest of the British line. I have it added in as an optional item for when the local group get to the scnenario. No idea how it will play out. I'll either leave it up for consensus or have the two sides roll off to see if it is included in the game or not.

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Postby afilter » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:52 pm

thomaso827 wrote:An earlier thread mentioned the HMS Carnarvon being there at a distance of about 20 miles behind the rest of the British line. I have it added in as an optional item for when the local group get to the scnenario. No idea how it will play out. I'll either leave it up for consensus or have the two sides roll off to see if it is included in the game or not.

Tom Oxley
You are correct HMS Carnavon is missing from the AoB OoB, but I beleive it is the Batlle of the Falklands that it was present at not Coronel. HMS Canopus was close to Coronel, but to slow to make it to the Battle.

Wiki Link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_ ... nd_Islands

Here is the thread that discussed HMS Carnavon:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/forum.php
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Postby thomaso827 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:35 pm

Ah, thanks. I'll make a note of that.

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Postby afilter » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:53 pm

thomaso827 wrote:Ah, thanks. I'll make a note of that.

Tom
These games are a great educational tool for me. Sure I knew about the battle of the Falklands, but definately not the complete OoB or the other details before playing games like these.

It is all about learning the history. :wink:
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Postby thomaso827 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:41 pm

Absolutely. That's what attracted me to historical minis some 35 years ago. Been playing either minis or board games steadily ever since.

I was looking at my ship worksheets, and for whatever reason I had put the Carnarvon on the worksheets for the wrong scenario when I made them up. No wonder I was thinking of the wrong one. I will make up the sheets for the Falklands and add to the correct force there.

I knew little to nothing about WW1 naval combat except for what little I got from the old SPI game Dreadnought. I just finished reading Castles of Steel, and am much better prepared to get these games on the table now. When I got the rules some time back, I hadnt started reading that yet and could not visualize the non-historical scenarios or campaign material in the rule book. Now it all makes good sense, and is probably the only way some of my models will ever see use on the table. I'm starting to work up a random ship list in Excel so I can select a year and points and go down a quick list to select or roll up the ships for a game.

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Postby thomaso827 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:41 pm

Absolutely. That's what attracted me to historical minis some 35 years ago. Been playing either minis or board games steadily ever since.

I was looking at my ship worksheets, and for whatever reason I had put the Carnarvon on the worksheets for the wrong scenario when I made them up. No wonder I was thinking of the wrong one. I will make up the sheets for the Falklands and add to the correct force there.

I knew little to nothing about WW1 naval combat except for what little I got from the old SPI game Dreadnought. I just finished reading Castles of Steel, and am much better prepared to get these games on the table now. When I got the rules some time back, I hadnt started reading that yet and could not visualize the non-historical scenarios or campaign material in the rule book. Now it all makes good sense, and is probably the only way some of my models will ever see use on the table. I'm starting to work up a random ship list in Excel so I can select a year and points and go down a quick list to select or roll up the ships for a game.

Tom
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Postby afilter » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:30 pm

For what if/campaign ideas I would encourge you to check out Avlance press Great War at Sea (GWAS) and Second World War at Sea (SWWAS) serries.

Great games in their own right with excellent historical and whatif scenarios included. The MAPS are superb. I have been slowly collecting them all.

My long term goal is to use AP gamesto run a campaign where fleets are moved and found on the strtegic maps and then the tactical comabat is resolved using Mini rules like VaS/AoD or any others that people are already comfortable with.

Some great history in the AP games as well.
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Postby thomaso827 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:59 pm

I'll have to check those out. I have the Victory By Any Means/Fire As She Bears campaign system for age of sail, and it has a lot that could be done for more modern campaigns. The biggest problem we face with WW1 is a pretty limited number of historical scenarios, so having something for a scenario generator or campaign is at least as important as any of the WW2 or age of sail eras. I dont want to park my ships when I run out of scenarios to play. :roll:

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Postby afilter » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:48 pm

thomaso827 wrote:I'll have to check those out. I have the Victory By Any Means/Fire As She Bears campaign system for age of sail, and it has a lot that could be done for more modern campaigns. The biggest problem we face with WW1 is a pretty limited number of historical scenarios, so having something for a scenario generator or campaign is at least as important as any of the WW2 or age of sail eras. I dont want to park my ships when I run out of scenarios to play. :roll:

Tom
AP Specializes in the "What If" and war plan scenarios. Here is there site:

http://www.avalanchepress.com/line_GWAS.php

The SWWAS link is there as well.
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Postby thomaso827 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:51 pm

I looked those up. Interesting. I'll have to keep one of those on my Christmas list. For now, every penny of my available hobby cash is buying more ships. :lol: Thankfully, Christmas isnt that far off right now.

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Postby afilter » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:02 pm

thomaso827 wrote:I looked those up. Interesting. I'll have to keep one of those on my Christmas list. For now, every penny of my available hobby cash is buying more ships. :lol: Thankfully, Christmas isnt that far off right now.

Tom
I hear you. BTW, not to take business directly away from AP. If you are just looking to get 1-2 there are vendors out there that sell many of the AP titles at a fraction of the cost. I think I paid $15-25 for most of the titles I own.

I used this vendor several times:
http://www.trollandtoad.com/products/se ... words=GWAS
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Postby thomaso827 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:48 pm

Thanks! I will certainly check those out. I found some good bargains on Noble Knight games but they are rather hit and miss. They will have something listed but then out of stock after a bit of a teaser. Noticed there are a lot of these on Ebay, too. Any suggestions on which ones to start with? Jutland and the Med look like good starters to me. Heck, they all look like something to work with for the year to come.

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Postby afilter » Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:27 pm

thomaso827 wrote:Thanks! I will certainly check those out. I found some good bargains on Noble Knight games but they are rather hit and miss. They will have something listed but then out of stock after a bit of a teaser. Noticed there are a lot of these on Ebay, too. Any suggestions on which ones to start with? Jutland and the Med look like good starters to me. Heck, they all look like something to work with for the year to come.

Tom
Yeah...it is tough to choose. The Med is good and the Map is stunning.

Image

I have bought a few on E-bay as well, but hit and miss. I love Nobel Knights(They are in my home town) but not always the lowest price.

I currently have all but a couple of the books for GWAS(currently in print) and slowly working on SWWAS.

For a good introduction Pacific crossroads(GWAS) and Coral Sea(SWWAS) are nice small ones under $20. Every game comes with the exact same rules, so just the strategic map, ships and scenario book changes. Many can be used together. Be advised most of the books are not complete games and only supplements that require one or more of the other boxed games.

My long term goal is to use the maps and strategic movement rules from GWAS/SWWAS to run a campaign and when fleets meet use VaS or other combat system to resolve tactical combat.
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Postby thomaso827 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:51 pm

This is to naval gaming what the Europa series was for ground combat as far as I can see. I let go of my Europa collection some years ago after having gotten most of the old GDW modules for the purpose of creating a ground combat campaign to form scenarios for minis games. One problem in that series was the number and size of the maps, and at the point I let go of it, I would have needed a very large garrage or basement floor to lay it all out. Keeping the regions seperate with possibly some overlapping as ships move from one region to another, but not needing to have both regions layed out together, seems like it will work much better.

That Med map looks great. A run at the Dardanelles looks to be in order there. :) Along with some good what-ifs, such as the Med and Middle East being a bigger part of the overall strategy instead of a side-show.

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Postby rcbecker1 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:00 am

You guys got me on all the WWI stuff havent followed it at all, to much research for WWII at this time. I just moved into Naval games When War at Sea came out then found the great rules here and have been hooked ever since. Most of my previous studies have been ground combat.
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