Feedback for Improving VaS/AoD

Discuss the Victory at Sea range of naval games.

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afilter
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Feedback for Improving VaS/AoD

Postby afilter » Tue May 11, 2010 3:02 pm

Let me start off by stating up front I do like the rules that are provided with both VAS and AoD books. I currently own VaS, oob and AoD. I bought them when I was deployed and had some time to read while I was considering a new Naval Mini rule set.

At that point my naval gaming experience had been WoTC War at Sea at simplistic end of the spectrum and something called "In Harms Way" at the other end of the spectrum. I mostly game with my young sons who love WaS (which we have extensively modified with some houserules). My thinking was soon they will be ready for a bit more , but the other rule sets are a little more complex than what they are interested in/willing to devote time to in order to appease dear old dad. ;)

VaS seemed like a good alternative while allowing us to use our huge collection of WoTC Minis or the large collection of 1/6000 I had started to build. I picked up AoD at the time as well as I always dreamed of venturing into WWI.

As mentioned I liked the rules in general. I am by no means an experienced player as I have only played a few times and that was with the benefit of an experienced group.

The reason I am not an experienced player and may have never actaully played at all is a few issues that I would like to address to possibly improve this game for the future. I have heard these from other potential players as well that have not tried the game as a result our outright trashed it in other forums.

1. The books are a bit difficult to reference as some things seem out of place. This can be fixed with a good player aid which I found via other players and has helped greatly with the flow of the game and speeding things up. I strongly feel Mongoose should provide this as a pull out on card stock with every book sold or at least as a free PDF download here.

2. Lack of useable ship data sheets. The ship data provided in the books gives the basic information, but IMO is not useable for game purposes. Mongoose again relys on the community to produce their own. Fortunately for a new player like me there are some great ones out there if you are motivated to look and ask that people are willing to share. This is not the case for AoD so far. My thought is that Mongoose should provide a standardized format along with pre-made data sheets for every class that is curremtly in the game if not every ship in that class. My suggestion would be to provide these as a download. preferably for free, but I would even be willing to pay an modest fee if it came with free updates as new material is added.

If Mongoose did these two things I think it would transform these from good games to Great games. As it is now it is very difficult for a new player who may already have fleets assembeld t just pick up the rules and start playing without first creating/finding the forms to support play.

I was recently encouraged to check out a set of rules called Naval Thunder which are available for download purchase only for about half the price as the hard cover books for VAS and AoD.

Since I was not committed to AoD I decided to check out the WWI version. The rules are OK, but do not include anything for on board aircraft or subs. The one thing they do provide is an excellent ship data base that is pre-formated for easy printing to be used again and again. It comes in a PDF as well as an excel work book. In the excel format can literally type in the code for the ship(not just the class) you want and the data pops up in a printable 3 to a page format for easy use.

If Mongoose was able to replicate this file with VAS and AoD data sheets I think they would blow away all competition and turn VaS and AoD into a great set of rules not only for the old salts, but for those newer to Naval gaming as well.

Before Mongoose invest any more time in creating new data I would like to see the existing data released in a new format. I truly think this would benefit and grow the community as a whole.

Anyway, that is my $.02 from the consumer perspective. ;)
Aaron
Lincolnlog
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Postby Lincolnlog » Wed May 26, 2010 12:59 pm

I have some ship charts I created on my own. They were based on some charts on David Manely's site. I created a template so I could alter the data slightly. Would be happy to share them with you.

Also the charts on line can be viewed at:

http://www.btinternet.com/~david.manley ... nchor30255

Send me a message here or on WoTC and provide me your e-mail and sen you some samples.

Bob
msprange
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Postby msprange » Thu May 27, 2010 5:21 pm

Many thanks for this post, it is very useful.

We are indeed considering some updates and revisions for VaS, so the more feedback we have, the better!
Matthew Sprange

Mongoose Publishing
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com
Stormbringer
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Postby Stormbringer » Fri May 28, 2010 11:54 am

The aircraft rules in Order of Battle are a little messed up. For example seafire was never as good as a late war zero. The allied planes are a little out of wack but other than that I like the rules as is.
DM
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Postby DM » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:05 pm

Depends on what you mean by "as good as" - the stats reflect a combination of firepower, speed, manoeuvrability and survivability. The Seafire scores well on firepower and survivability, the Zero rather less well, hence the Seafire scores better overall accoring to the rather convoluted equations for determining overall dogfighting performance :)
DM's naval website, now moved to the NWS site
http://www.navalwargamessociety.org/nav ... links.html
Co-author "Order of Battle"
Author, "Age of Dreadnoughts"
Bloke who paints VAS ships for Matt
Bacon Number of 4 :D
afilter
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Postby afilter » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:22 pm

Any new news on this front?
Aaron
rcbecker1
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Postby rcbecker1 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:51 pm

Ive heard rumors but cant tell you much.
"Official Naval Boffin"
Lincolnlog
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Postby Lincolnlog » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:18 am

We like rumors! :P
GeekEGuy
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Contact:

Rumors?!

Postby GeekEGuy » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:47 pm

Please, please share the rumors. I'd very much like to see some life breathed into this great game and this forum. :)
rcbecker1
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Postby rcbecker1 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:25 pm

All I say is look above, I can say no more. But I would definitley like to know more myself. Or even be involved.
MI rcbecker1 :D
"Official Naval Boffin"
rcbecker1
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Postby rcbecker1 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:28 am

On the topic above:
these are some of the things I use to improve the game in my eyes, now some are the same but there are also suttle differences. Also some things are barrowed From David Manley but possibly modified by me.

+1, Target within 10 inches.
-1, Target moved more than 6 inches this turn.
(Does not affect secondary armament)
-1, Target is at long range (more than 20”)
-2, Target is at extreme range (more than 30”)
-1, Bomber attacking ships
+1, To fire at Targets Beam
-, Re roll successful attacks if evasive action was used.
+1, Target on units over 20” if using Radar
-1, Night, fog, rain, snow (ignore if Radar equipped)

May not fire over 30” During night actions or storms, unless using Radar. (No radar bonus)

Critical Hits
2d6 Critical Location
2 Vital Systems
3-4 Hull
5-7 Superstructure / Crew
8-9 Engines
10-11 Weapons
12 Vital Systems

Critical Hits
2d6 Critical Location Torpedoes
2 Vital Systems
3-5 Hull
6 - 8 Superstructure / Crew
9 – 11 Engines
12 Vital Systems


3.4.1 Damage from Torpedoes

All ships hit by torpedoes will suffer at least one automatic critical hit, (reference below) regardless of whether any other damage is taken. This represents the shock effect of the underwater explosion.

Torpedoes ignore a ships Armor score unless they possess the Torpedo Belt trait. This simulates hitting the vessel below the waterline where the ship's armor is thinner. Ships without the Torpedo Belt trait will use armor 2+ against torpedoes. If a ship does possess the Torpedo Belt trait then the ships Armor score should be used. Damage to civilian shipping caused by torpedoes is doubled.

In addition, roll a d6 for each damaging hit and consult the chart below:

Die
Roll Result
1 Torpedo hits the bow. Normal damage plus speed reduced by 1
2-5 Torpedo hits the side. Normal damage only
6 Torpedo hits the stern. Normal damage, and Roll a d6:
• 1= props damaged, speed reduced by 1,
• 6 = steering damaged, turn number reduced by 1.

Treat torpedo tubes as "Turrets" when assessing weapon critical hits (i.e. critical hit 10-11 may result in the loss of tubes), and when rolling for turret/trait loss if a ship is crippled.


Fighters can strafe ships using their dogfight score to attack Personnel on ships. Both players roll one die each. The aircraft attacking adds his Dogfight score to the roll. If the Attacker wins the crew take damage equal to his Dogfight score.

For a complete breakdown on crits see my cheatsheet at:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.ph ... e_expand=y
"Official Naval Boffin"

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