Queen Elizabeth Class BB

Discuss the Victory at Sea range of naval games.

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wkehrman
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Queen Elizabeth Class BB

Postby wkehrman » Sun May 24, 2009 2:29 am

OK did I miss some fine print?

The QE and the Valiant have main gun ranges of 33". (Per VaS)
The "less upgraded" (according to the fluff) Warspite, Barham and Malaya have main gun ranges of 42". (per OOB)

What gives?
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Postby Joe_Dracos » Sun May 24, 2009 7:02 am

I believe that the QE and valiant were the first two to be launched and the last three got more advanced guns because of new guns being available during their fitting out.

I could be mistaken.... I read that somewhere... I think.
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Postby wkehrman » Sun May 24, 2009 4:51 pm

Digging briefly and only on the Internet:

They all had the BL 15"/42 MkI Guns.
This is the same gun as on the Revenge (Resolution), Renown and Hood, which ought to standardize everything to 33" in game terms (Though the Resolution class is only 26")

I fully acknowledge that the data I am using is quite thin.
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Postby Brass » Sun May 24, 2009 10:30 pm

wkehrman wrote:Digging briefly and only on the Internet:

They all had the BL 15"/42 MkI Guns.
This is the same gun as on the Revenge (Resolution), Renown and Hood, which ought to standardize everything to 33" in game terms (Though the Resolution class is only 26")

I fully acknowledge that the data I am using is quite thin.
I suspect a proof-reading/cut-and-paste error; it wouldn't be the first one and will undoubtedly not be the last.
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Postby Joe_Dracos » Sun May 24, 2009 11:54 pm

Gah, I remember, its the effectiveness of their gunnery control, not the gun itself. A 10" gun is capable of firing clear over the horizon... your not going to hit anything smaller then a large island, but you can. (unless you have satilite and GPS telemitry)

The Warspite holds the record for the longest shot that hit from a cannon (17km). Its their fire control systems that distinguish them. Warspite, Barham and Malaya recived only partial refits and it was mainly to their gunnery control systems.
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Postby DSV1 » Wed May 27, 2009 8:20 pm

I think it is this

QE and valiant got a more extensive refit than the other 3 so the other 3 got an elevated degree of fire during refit to compensate - hence the longer firing range they have
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Postby Brass » Wed May 27, 2009 11:13 pm

DSV1 wrote:I think it is this

QE and valiant got a more extensive refit than the other 3 so the other 3 got an elevated degree of fire during refit to compensate - hence the longer firing range they have
That was my first thought too, but Conway's shows all five having a 30-degree elevation for the main battery.
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Postby wkehrman » Thu May 28, 2009 12:11 am

Brass wrote:
DSV1 wrote:I think it is this

QE and valiant got a more extensive refit than the other 3 so the other 3 got an elevated degree of fire during refit to compensate - hence the longer firing range they have
That was my first thought too, but Conway's shows all five having a 30-degree elevation for the main battery.
What does Conway's show them as having different as regards the main guns. I found some stuff online about the AAA directors and such, but that was it.
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Postby Brass » Fri May 29, 2009 2:20 am

wkehrman wrote:
Brass wrote:
DSV1 wrote:I think it is this

QE and valiant got a more extensive refit than the other 3 so the other 3 got an elevated degree of fire during refit to compensate - hence the longer firing range they have
That was my first thought too, but Conway's shows all five having a 30-degree elevation for the main battery.
What does Conway's show them as having different as regards the main guns. I found some stuff online about the AAA directors and such, but that was it.
Conway's shows all five mounting the 15"/42 Mk I; in fact, they were the first ships designed to carry this particular gun, which had not yet been built when the design was finalized.

I still think the 42" range in OoB is just a typo.
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Postby wkehrman » Fri May 29, 2009 4:20 am

Brass wrote:
Conway's shows all five mounting the 15"/42 Mk I; in fact, they were the first ships designed to carry this particular gun, which had not yet been built when the design was finalized.

I still think the 42" range in OoB is just a typo.
It certainly makes sense, I would, however prefer if someone official said so, or gave an explanation as to why.
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Postby DM » Fri May 29, 2009 4:54 am

The ranges are typos. They should be 33" for Warspite, QE and Valiant, (which had the modernisation and thus the increase in gun elevation) and 26" for Barham and Malaya (which weren't modernised).

To be strictly accurate the unmodernised guns (which included those on the R Class battleships) could, later in the war theoretically shoot out to 28" due to the introduction of improved propellant arrangements (the infamous "supercharges" - much talked about in gunnery circles in part because of the debate as to whether they were ever actually issued to ships, or just to the few guns used in shore batteries)
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Postby Myrm » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:16 pm

Joe_Dracos wrote: The Warspite holds the record for the longest shot that hit from a cannon (17km).
I thought it was about 26000 yards - so around 24km. Now for the naval guys who wins: Warspite or Scharnhorst on this one????
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Postby Joe_Dracos » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:48 am

Warspite... Sharnhorst is criminally undergunned for a Battlecruiser her size.

And Oopse, just went and looked it up in The War at Sea. I typed km when it should have been miles..... . :oops:
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Postby Myrm » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:28 am

Sorry I meant for longest range hit between the two - not overall firepower, wiki (and all caveats for that source being observed) lists some controversy over who fired further, Warspite or Scharnhorst (I assume the WWII one here) - so I was hoping a naval buff could answer the question :)
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Postby AdrianH » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:26 pm

There's an analysis here:
http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-006.htm

Based on an on-line report of the attack by Scharnhorst and Gneisenau against HMS Glorious, as well as a translation of a German report, the author concludes that Scharnhorst scored its hit at a range of somewhere between 26,400 to 26,465 yards. Although this appears longer than the range of 26,000 yards claimed for HMS Warspite, the author notes that due to uncertainty in the accuracy of the rangefinders, it's effectively a tie.
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Postby Myrm » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:25 pm

Heheh, thats is fence sitting from the author on a monumental order :)

Thanks for the source.....

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