Iron Thunder questions

Discuss the Victory at Sea range of naval games.

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Brass
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Iron Thunder questions

Postby Brass » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:24 pm

Here are a couple of minor queries. Hopefully someone whose reading comprehension exceeds mine can help me out. Actually, I suspect I know the answers but I'd like to be sure. I'm basing most of these on a comparison of the data for the CSS Virginia with the text.

1. May I assume that the two firing arcs listed for the Virginia as Fa and Ba (not in the table on p.17) are actually Fl and Al? It seems reasonable.

2. There are no damage dice listed for the Virginia's guns and the text states that you get to roll one die per hit. So, a standard 1 DD per hit and the Special Traits are what differentiate between, say, a 30-pdr Parrott and a 100-pdr Whitworth?

3. What is the significance of the column labeled SF? It isn't mentioned in the text and I don't see it in the main rules either. Or does this get explained in Part 2?

Or have I just missed a lot?

LT
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Postby Captain_Nemo » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:48 pm

I better read that article again because I have the same questions.....
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Re: Iron Thunder questions

Postby Ray Ray » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:56 pm

Brass wrote:Here are a couple of minor queries. Hopefully someone whose reading comprehension exceeds mine can help me out. Actually, I suspect I know the answers but I'd like to be sure. I'm basing most of these on a comparison of the data for the CSS Virginia with the text.

1. May I assume that the two firing arcs listed for the Virginia as Fa and Ba (not in the table on p.17) are actually Fl and Al? It seems reasonable.

2. There are no damage dice listed for the Virginia's guns and the text states that you get to roll one die per hit. So, a standard 1 DD per hit and the Special Traits are what differentiate between, say, a 30-pdr Parrott and a 100-pdr Whitworth?

3. What is the significance of the column labeled SF? It isn't mentioned in the text and I don't see it in the main rules either. Or does this get explained in Part 2?

Or have I just missed a lot?

LT
1. Your assumption is reasonable. Apparently, I changed the table, but not the example ship data (which will haunt me - see below). I updated the data in the ship annex, but not the embedded example.

2. Correct! The heavy rifle has two attack dice. If either or both dice hit, each die would then roll two damage dice (from the double damage trait). If attack both dice hit, then four damage dice are rolled. Meanwhile, the 3 AD for the port medium smoothbore represent the dice of three 'real world' guns.

3. SF - another idea from an early draft which should have been purged! (See #1 above). The SF, or Split Fire factor was a way to allow players to target individual guns. It was too cumbersome and was dropped in later playtest copies.

Overall, I'd say you've grasped things well.

Ray
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Postby Prophet » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:30 am

I just read the S and P with Iron Thunder in it, I must say being a CW buff, that I am well pleased that a game on CW naval had been put out. There may be more I know of a few but off the point. But where are more ships to be found? The CSS Virginia is there but need more than one. :wink:
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Postby Ray Ray » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:11 am

Prophet wrote:I just read the S and P with Iron Thunder in it, I must say being a CW buff, that I am well pleased that a game on CW naval had been put out. There may be more I know of a few but off the point. But where are more ships to be found? The CSS Virginia is there but need more than one. :wink:
Got a feeling that the ships will be in part 2.

But for a quick play game...

USS Monitor
Speed: 14"
Turning: 1/45
Target: 5+
Armor: 5+
Crew: 5/1
Damage: 15/5
Flotation: 3
Traits: Monitor, Armored, Agile

Armament
Heavy Smoothbore
Range: 20"
Arc: T
AD: 2
Special Traits: AP, Slow-loading, Double Damage
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Postby Brass » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:28 am

Awri-i-i-i-i-ight! For once I actually already have the ships so I can play the rules without having to build a new navy first!

Thanks for the Monitor. I'll probably extrapolate data for a few more vessels and play a game or two until the next S&P comes out. Thanks again.

LT
Prophet

Postby Prophet » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:39 am

Thanks, Sgt.
Prophet

Postby Prophet » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:27 pm

I am sure I know the answer to this before I ask it but here goes. Are the any actual minis for this time period navy? If so, where and what do they tend to cost?
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Postby DM » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:06 pm

There are two mainstream scales for ACW and ironclad naval wargaming, 1/600 and 1/1200 (plus some in 1/1000, 15mm etc.)

In 1/1200 the best models are from Langton Miniatures, with Skytrex and Navwar also producing some OK examples. North Head are starting up in this scale and if their ironclads are as good as their 1/1200 modern fast attack craft they'll be excellent too.

In 1/600 you have resin and/or metal models from Thoroughbred (the best quality), Bay Area Yards and Peter Pig. I have examples from all of these manufacturers and would recommend them all (although a few of the earlier Peter Pig models are a bit "cartoony" - the later ones are very good though).

Some useful links:

http://www.peterpig.co.uk/range7.htm
http://bayareayards.virtualscratchbuilder.com/
http://www.skytrex.com/
http://www.navwar.co.uk/nav/default.asp?MMID=80
http://www.thoroughbredmodels.com/index.htm
http://www.rodlangton.com/
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Postby Brass » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:08 am

And, if you really good eyes and not much money, Panzerschiffe have a range in 1:2400 scale. Bear in mind that at this scale a ship the size of the USS Hartford is less than 1-1/2 inches long and the CSS Stonewall is 7/8 of an inch. This still makes them easier to see than 1:6000 scale WWII ships for those of us who have reached a certain age and they tend to run about $1.50 each, which probably makes them the cheapest on the market.

That said, the bulk of my ACW ships are Langtons :) .

LT
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Postby Prophet » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:29 am

By looking at the links above, I would give the best looking ones to Langston and the second place to the US company which escapes me at the moment.
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Postby Ray Ray » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:30 am

I've got a ridiculously large collection in 1/600. Mostly Thouroughbred, though Bay Area Yards is catching up along with some Peter Pig and a couple of old TCS castings.

At least they are large enough to see without a magnifying glass!

There may be a few ships you can't get in 1/600, but its getting harder to remember which ones those are.
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Postby DM » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:41 am

've just been reminded that I forgot the excellent 1/2400 models from Hallmark (now Noble Miniatures). They don't cover the Civil War but are ideal if you want to do the European wars such as the Second Schleswig War or the Lissa campaign. They are very well detailed and reasonably priced (and the ranges are fairly complete for these campaigns too).

http://www.rock-con.com/Figurehead/Figurehead2400.html

Rather annoyingly that means I have ironclad warship models in 1/600, 1/1200 AND 1/2400. I ought to rationalise :D
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Postby Brass » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:49 pm

DM wrote:I've just been reminded that I forgot the excellent 1/2400 models from Hallmark (now Noble Miniatures). They don't cover the Civil War but are ideal if you want to do the European wars such as the Second Schleswig War or the Lissa campaign. They are very well detailed and reasonably priced (and the ranges are fairly complete for these campaigns too).

http://www.rock-con.com/Figurehead/Figurehead2400.html

Rather annoyingly that means I have ironclad warship models in 1/600, 1/1200 AND 1/2400. I ought to rationalise :D
Good point. My Renaissance and Napoleonic fleets are all Hallmark/Figurehead and the little suckers are very pretty indeed. Tumbling Dice also do a range of 1:2400 "Victorian Sail", which I have never seen but would expect to be very nice based on the quality of their Anglo-Dutch wars ships. This range does include ACW ships, along with a number of European ironclads and generic steam warships.

http://tumblingdiceuk.com/sail_steam.html

David, you only have ships in three different scales??? Man, I thought you were a gamer! :D

LT
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Postby DM » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:06 pm

Ironclads in 1/600, 1/1200 and 1/2400

I also have other naval miniatures in 1/100, 1/200, 1/285, 1/300, 1/450, 1/700, 1/3000 and 1/6000 :)

Te Tumbling Dice ironclads are OK but don't really fit well with the Hallmark ones unfortunately. One of my chums described them as "Fighing Weights" which I felt was a bit unfair, but they are certainly less finely detailed as the Hallmark ones.
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Postby Brass » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:00 pm

DM wrote:Ironclads in 1/600, 1/1200 and 1/2400

I also have other naval miniatures in 1/100, 1/200, 1/285, 1/300, 1/450, 1/700, 1/3000 and 1/6000 :)
Thank <insert name of deity here> for that! I could almost feel the foundations of my reality system beginning to crack!
The Tumbling Dice ironclads are OK but don't really fit well with the Hallmark ones unfortunately. One of my chums described them as "Fighing Weights" which I felt was a bit unfair, but they are certainly less finely detailed as the Hallmark ones.
That's a shame. Still and all, the Figurehead ships are easier to get in the US anyway.

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Postby Wing Commander » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:20 pm

I´d go with Langton every time, ordered my first 2 squadrons on Tuesday, they landed Wednesday! Superb customer service, gorgeous ships and affordable prices.
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Postby Ricepa » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:36 pm

Could we get the firing arcs of the CSS Atlanta? They must have been inadvertantly left off.
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Postby Ray Ray » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:20 am

Ricepa wrote:Could we get the firing arcs of the CSS Atlanta? They must have been inadvertantly left off.
What the...?

Good call out!

Weapon Range AD Arc Special
Heavy Rifle 40” 1 P.F.S Super AP, Double Damage, Slow-loading
Heavy Rifle 40” 1 P,A,S Super AP, Double Damage, Slow-loading
Medium Rifle 40” 1 P AP, Double Damage
Medium Rifle 40” 1 S AP, Double Damage
Heavy Spar Torpedo 1” 1 F
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Postby Ricepa » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:24 pm

Also, could we also get the priority of the ships in S&P 53. The priorities must have been overlooked. Thank you for your time.

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