Hypothetical Ships in a Supplement?

Discuss the Victory at Sea range of naval games.

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What should be the scope of ships in the supplement?

Poll ended at Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:20 pm

Only ships that were built and entered service should be included
5
16%
As above, plus ships that were under construction but not completed (e.g. LION)
11
35%
As above plus ships that were ordered but not built (e.g. MALTA, MONTANA)
8
26%
As above plus ships that were the subject of design studies but were not ordered (e.g. B64, H44)
7
23%
 
Total votes: 31
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Hypothetical Ships in a Supplement?

Postby DM » Tue May 29, 2007 4:20 pm

Following on from the recent "New Additions" thread, if it were up to you, would ships included in the supplement be limited to those that were actually built and entered service, would it also include ships that were built but not completed, those that were ordered but not built or would you also include "hypotheticals" that were the subject of design studies only?
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Postby Thunder » Tue May 29, 2007 4:45 pm

If the new book does include hypotheticals, I would hope they identify them as such somehow. Just makes it easier for us less than fanatical naval buffs.

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Postby Leadman » Tue May 29, 2007 5:12 pm

I'm not interested in the "fantasy" ships (H44/45, Montana). After all of the built ships are covered, I would be interested in the ships that were scrapped/changed as a result of the Washington and London treaties :D

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Postby juggler69uk » Tue May 29, 2007 5:34 pm

I voted for actual built ships, IMHO the what ifs and the rest shoud be a subject for S&P or the post WW2 / modern version
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Postby E Nicely » Tue May 29, 2007 5:57 pm

How about the what if's from John Birmingham's trilogy? The mutinational task force from 2021? :shock: :)
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Postby Hugbiel » Tue May 29, 2007 7:20 pm

I would like ship that made fleet list be balanced somehow for the main navy ie prospective ship for 1943-1945.
Some ship wasn't fieded only to war presure ( Joffre or more Jean Bart seem a good exemple of this ) and shoud be present some other are more hypotetics.

Very hypotetical ship shoud be used with very much caution, but should be included for fun as "non official" ship AFTER the main historics ship and their main refit are covered.

For design studies I remember that the King George V was planned with 12 main gun and that only 10 can be fitted for the stability of the ship.

But VAS is a game and it is made for fun so the main ship by history but also by their expected capabilty should be in it.
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Postby Twin-Linked Aldades » Wed May 30, 2007 12:13 am

I voted for the actuals, it is at its core still a `historical` game so it should stay clear from `fantasy` units.
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Postby Kevin Clark » Wed May 30, 2007 5:01 am

My vote is for a bit of everything. My main interest is in campaign games, so for me, historical accuracy is not paramount. If you have a bit of everything you can choose to 'use or lose' if you don't have it you cannot use it. I think a bit of everything would give any supplement the broadest possible appeal.
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Postby vitalis6969 » Wed May 30, 2007 9:06 am

I voted a bit of everything in order to give people the flexibility to play whatever style of game they want to play. If I want to do a recreation, then the ships are there. If I want to do an alternate history WWII that pits Germany vs. the US for total domination of the Atlantic (like our next campaign is going to be) then I can do it.

At least the H-39 BBs of the Z-plan were started... :D

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Postby Swan » Wed May 30, 2007 2:19 pm

I shot the mid road with including ships that were ordered but never built. These at least passed the design studies are were decided as being good additions to each nations fleets. Some of the design studies came up with new ideas, though not all of these ideas were always feasible. This also gives the players a broader base to form their fleets from. These ships were very real possibilities and most likely would have been built had the war gone differently, making them more the realm of 'historical' rather then 'fantasy'.
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Postby hegemon » Wed May 30, 2007 3:20 pm

well i do have a suggestion that might make everybody happy, do the sup without the hypothetical ships.

ahh but wait, afterwards do a second sup that is purely hypothetical, or alternate world where germans won or where the war is still going by now?

hows that for an idea.

but of the poll i say stick the hypo's in.
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Postby Swan » Wed May 30, 2007 9:44 pm

The counter to that would be to produce a suplement with all ships in including hypotheticals, and then let the players decide which ships they want to use for their games.

The argument here would be one of space, but many different classes of ships when reduced to game stats would look the same, so several classes could all be grouped under one label.
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Postby Brass » Thu May 31, 2007 2:26 am

Honestly, I don't care if Mongoose puts Mussolini's state gondola and two classes of Dark Elf dragonship in their supplement as long as they spend at least as much time and space on fixing the sizable holes that still exist in the lists of ships, planes, etc, that actually served during World War II.

I mean, which is more important, that the Japanese get the super Yamato and the US gets the Montanas or that the Italians finally get some aircraft and maybe a light cruiser or maybe that the Dutch, who actually fought at sea, get at least as much representation as the Russians, who took the majority of their losses running into mines and being bombed at anchor while their sailors fought as infantry?

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Postby Swan » Thu May 31, 2007 3:01 am

I have to agree with you Brass. It would be nice to see the holes filled, and I know at least one person who is chompin at the bit to see the Italian Air Force. It would be nice to see full fleet lists for each of the nations, that will just add variety and enjoyment to our games.
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Postby Captain_Nemo » Thu May 31, 2007 4:18 am

I voted for all of them. What the hell I figure it can't hurt. o'course this could lead to another version of Star Fleet Battles with so many different ships that you could go cross-eyed at the prospect of building a fleet... :P
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Postby vitalis6969 » Thu May 31, 2007 4:25 am

Captain_Nemo wrote:I voted for all of them. What the hell I figure it can't hurt. o'course this could lead to another version of Star Fleet Battles with so many different ships that you could go cross-eyed at the prospect of building a fleet... :P
The American fleet ALONE could do that... :D

Let alone everyone else.

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Postby Twin-Linked Aldades » Thu May 31, 2007 8:38 am

Swan wrote:I have to agree with you Brass. It would be nice to see the holes filled, and I know at least one person who is chompin at the bit to see the Italian Air Force. It would be nice to see full fleet lists for each of the nations, that will just add variety and enjoyment to our games.
Make that two then... In a carrier based war (talking historical as we always play in that direction) it is a real horror sailing the Regia Marina, even with the stop-gap measure for Aquila we have put into our campaign.

Its not the damage of the bombers etc that makes it a nightmare, but a single point / wing of fighters in the air and you can kiss observation planes byebye, especcially since the lack of radar with the italians (though the Littorio`s WHERE equipped with that around the Mid War era)
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Postby Tibour » Thu May 31, 2007 2:02 pm

I voted for in service and under construction only. I also think that the holes in the current lists should be filled before flights of fantasy are created. I would prefer to see flights of fantasy in a seperate supplement.

While I have nothing agaisnt what if scenarios I just want to see the real fleets finished first.
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Postby Jellicoe » Thu May 31, 2007 3:38 pm

I voted for 3.) everything up to Montana and Malta could conceivably have worked. Some of the later German designs were just a bit too unrealistic and even the naval staff were well aware of that. So in my opinion to have such ueber-ships which on paper can take out anything is just a step too far.
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Postby DSV1 » Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:14 pm

Ships like the Graf Zepplin I can just about cope with but we will be in danger of having H44 class super battleships that were never really going to be built :/

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