Yamato & Kongo vs. KGV & Queen Elizabeth (Short Vers

Discuss the Victory at Sea range of naval games.

Moderator: rcbecker1

User avatar
Captain_Nemo
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 715
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:55 pm
Location: Rogers, AR

Yamato & Kongo vs. KGV & Queen Elizabeth (Short Vers

Postby Captain_Nemo » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:54 am

I think Keith asked if someone would try this and then Yamato & Nagato vs the same 2 RN ships. This is the first Battle, I hope you like it. BTW, Yes I like playing the Allies.

Set up
We used the At All Costs setup map again. I took the Royal Navy and my friend took the the IJN.
I set up in my Deployment Zone at the point halfway on the Line heading West QE in the lead because of her shorter range Main Guns I wanted that firepower available .
He set his ships at the bottom of the map parallel to the Line on a Northwesterly course.

For some unspoken reason we didn’t begin to fire until we were within 27,000 yards I mean 27 inches. The Yamato and the Kongo concentrated their fire on the QE while the Royals worked on Yamato.
Yamato lost her Bridge and a point of Speed early on, but her guns are monsters! Kongo is no slouch either. Well, she is a bit of a tiger, isn’t she? By turn 5 QE was a smoking wreck with only 8 Damage Points left and a half inch of Speed left to run by.
Yamato had 10 Points of Damage left before becoming “Crippled” while KGV and Kongo were Unscathed.

In Turn 6 the RN won initiative, as there’s nothing in the rules about Crippled ships not continuing the fight, QE fired a broadside at Yamato KGV did the same between the 2 of them they brought Yamato down by 8 points Damage she was still holding in there! Kongo tapped on QE with both Main and Secondary guns dropping her down by only 2 points, crappy rolls here really. Yamato put her main guns on KGV causing 5 points Damage and put 3 more points on QE with her Secondaries. 20”! Talk about “Reach out and Touch Someone” Whoa!

Turn 7 was Hairy! We decided that since QE had taken hits while Crippled that we should do the Turret and Specials Check thing everytime it happened; QE lost her Aircraft, Torpedo Belt, Turret B, Turret X, Secondaries and, her AA. As her last act, she fired on Yamato again causing a Magazine Explosion That sank Yamato just before Kongo released her fury on QE and sent QE to the “Briny Deep” in retribution. KGV was aghast at the fate of her escort and only caused 2 hits to Kongo.

Now, Boys and Girls, here is where we learned the true difference between BB’s and BC’s and the importance of positioning your vessels.
Kongo had let KGV get behind her in the hurry to kill QE and belief that Yamato could help out. Kongo fired on KGV with everything she had causing 4 points of Damage and no Crits. KGV returned the Favor; causing a Horrifying amount of damage. But the dice were good to KGV this time 9 out of 10 Main Battery shots hit, out of those 10 points were tallied including 2 Critical Hits of which one was a Magazine Explosion and one Killed a turret, Kongo would not be able to fire for 2 turns giving KGV free shots for the whole time and in good Position too.

We called it quits. Royal Navy wins BTW.

Nothing Batter than Lucky Dice rolls!!!! Armor: 4 on large vessels really blows.
I like using the At All Costs for one-offs and Duels like this one. It seems more forgiving in the deployment phases of the game and you get more maneuvering room. So that is my favorite Map right now. I think that the game could have gone in the IJN’s favor had they been further back and used their Range advantage. We shall she tomorrow. :)

Well that’s all for today, Thanks for reading.
I said,"Qapla! Baaaaby!"
User avatar
Lord David the Denied
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4260
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:39 am
Location: Northampton, UK

Postby Lord David the Denied » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:59 am

So the Royal Navy battleships aren't at such a massive disadvantage versus Johnny Jap after all? Sounds like both of His Majesty's ships gave a good account of themselves, and taught Hirohito's boys a lesson, too.

Britiannia still rules the waves, it seems... :D
User avatar
Court Jester
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1002
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:21 pm
Location: Basingstoke, Hampshire, UK
Contact:

Postby Court Jester » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:35 pm

No idea why you guys didn't open fire sooner... might be hard to hit but there is always the chance... :wink:
User avatar
Captain_Nemo
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 715
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:55 pm
Location: Rogers, AR

Postby Captain_Nemo » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:37 pm

Courtjester, we didn't open fire sooner because it doesn't make sense to open fire at those ranges. Now in game terms you are perfectly correct, but , I have been conditioned to shoot only at what I can identify and hit.

Like when I'm hunting I see a deer 500 yards away from my deerstand, right? I know I can hit the beast but I'm not sure about the kill. So I don't shoot. Little stuff like that carries over into my gaming, believe it or not.

So we didn't begin firing until we were close enough to actually be reasonably sure of hitting.

Next time though I'll try it your way. ;)
I said,"Qapla! Baaaaby!"
User avatar
Alexb83
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1708
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:15 am
Location: Devizes, UK

Postby Alexb83 » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:21 pm

Yes, it is funny how game mechanics can allow you to do things which in real life might not get carried off for more practical reasons (like not wanting to waste ammunition, or standing orders not to fire unless hits are assured - as with those oh so expensive torpedoes).

We played a night-time mediterranean convoy bash, RN vs. Italians at my local gaming group last night. We had to do all sorts of things with house rules to bolster the game around the spotlight rules to stop escorts from shooting up their merchants, and we had ships blowing each other up in the black of night without illumination at 50 inch ranges (I think it's an inch to 100 yards in that game system).

Games can be funny sometimes.
Cats! I'm being nibbled to death by cats.

My Photobucket: http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l69/Alexb83/
User avatar
Captain_Nemo
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 715
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:55 pm
Location: Rogers, AR

Postby Captain_Nemo » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:50 pm

100 yards to the Inch? :shock: You all must have been on a gymnasium floor. What system were y'all using, Alex?
I said,"Qapla! Baaaaby!"
User avatar
DM
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2422
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:43 pm
Location: Gloucester, UK

Postby DM » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:19 pm

Yes, it is funny how game mechanics can allow you to do things which in real life might not get carried off for more practical reasons (like not wanting to waste ammunition, or standing orders not to fire unless hits are assured - as with those oh so expensive torpedoes).
This is one of those lessons you learn early if you play in a well run campaign. I've played a few times against players who thought they were in Dodge City and who blazed away at anything that moved until they ran out of ammo. Not much of a problem in a pick-up game, but in a campaign where you have to send your destroyers back to a friendly port to reload with torpedoes its a bit of a killer :)
DM's naval website, now moved to the NWS site
http://www.navalwargamessociety.org/nav ... links.html
Co-author "Order of Battle"
Author, "Age of Dreadnoughts"
Bloke who paints VAS ships for Matt
Bacon Number of 4 :D
User avatar
Lord David the Denied
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4260
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:39 am
Location: Northampton, UK

Postby Lord David the Denied » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:43 pm

I want to play a campaign with you, DM... you're like the wargaming Messiah... :P
User avatar
Alexb83
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1708
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:15 am
Location: Devizes, UK

Postby Alexb83 » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:01 pm

Captain_Nemo wrote:100 yards to the Inch? :shock: You all must have been on a gymnasium floor. What system were y'all using, Alex?
I think it's called General Quarters or something like that from a brief look at the original rulebook the other day (I just play the system rather than owning it, and we use Navwar 1/3000 ships) - 100 yards to an inch may be an exaggeration :) - the point only came up when we had a cruiser and destroyer crossing paths at very close range and someone said it'd equate to a few hundred yards.

We play our games on an 8 foot by 12 foot or so set of tables.

It's quite a neat system - basic 4 armament/hull boxes per ship, with the speed and attack values distributed over the boxes. Straddle table for shooting (with the usual modifiers) with hit dice depending on ranges and gun sizes. Then it's all ratios between attack/defence to determine damage. Also, for a change, the lower you roll the better.
Cats! I'm being nibbled to death by cats.

My Photobucket: http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l69/Alexb83/
User avatar
DM
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2422
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:43 pm
Location: Gloucester, UK

Postby DM » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:23 pm

Come to the NWS event on HMS Belfast on June 2/3rd and your wish may be granted :)
DM's naval website, now moved to the NWS site
http://www.navalwargamessociety.org/nav ... links.html
Co-author "Order of Battle"
Author, "Age of Dreadnoughts"
Bloke who paints VAS ships for Matt
Bacon Number of 4 :D
User avatar
Lord David the Denied
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4260
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:39 am
Location: Northampton, UK

Postby Lord David the Denied » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:28 pm

If I can...
Keith
Mongoose
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 7:41 pm

Postby Keith » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:58 pm

Nice report, Interesting result. Did you try using the spotter planes? For the purest these would let you "see" things at the full 45,000 yard range.

This battle was supposed to be the more even of the two I suggested and you did get a lucky hit to destroy the Yamamoto prematurely.

Looking at the stats I consider the relative strengths of the ships as follows. Yamamoto a strong war chhoice while the Kongo is a weak battle. The Nagato is a strong battle choice, while the RN ships are average for their class (but the best the UK has to offer). It is the Yamamoto / Nagato combination I think that would be difficult to beat.

I'll see what I can arrange to play tomorrow.
User avatar
Captain_Nemo
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 715
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:55 pm
Location: Rogers, AR

Postby Captain_Nemo » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:28 pm

Keith, we did not use the Spotters. As the RN commander I did not see the need, because the IJN's AA can reach beyond the Spotter Bird's "Must stay within 6 inches" so that would be wasted effort and, the IJN player did not feel that running the stupid things was worth the hassle.

Also I don't think i can play the 3rd battle this week. Family vacation starting Friday and, I need to pack. So I hope that I can see your report soon.
I said,"Qapla! Baaaaby!"
Keith
Mongoose
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 7:41 pm

Postby Keith » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:58 pm

We fought a KGV / QE versus a Yamato / Nagato trial game. The Japs did cream the RN but mainly due to "THAT" critical offing the previously undamaged KGV on turn three. It had, on turn 2, taken over half the hits (18) of the QE without inflicting a single critical hit.

I have now revised my view on the relative strengths of these ships for 2 reasons.

The first is, that with luck when rolling criticals the RN could compete. However, if there were no criticals in the game (or each side benefited eqaully) the IJN should, IMO, always win this encounter.

The second revolved around the use of smoke and radar. With the current rules and a few destroyers, the RN could pound the IJN at range with impunity. This would force the IJN to close.

As an aside I feel that their should be a negative modifier for firing through smoke if you have radar. I am sure such fire was less accurate than that achieved by optically aimed gunnery. (Is there anyone out there with some historical facts to support or refute this statement?)
frankinla
Shrew
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:05 pm

Re: Yamato & Kongo vs. KGV & Queen Elizabeth (Short

Postby frankinla » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:45 pm

Captain_Nemo wrote: Armor: 4 on large vessels really blows.
Amen to that! Played against Germans the other night who used Improved Rangefinders & radar locks to drop long-range shots on my Kongo with ease. The fact that they weren't AP hardly mattered against the lousy Armor 4. Gah! :evil:

Good report!

Frank in L.A.
Keith
Mongoose
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 7:41 pm

Re: Yamato & Kongo vs. KGV & Queen Elizabeth (Short

Postby Keith » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:16 am

frankinla wrote:
Captain_Nemo wrote: Armor: 4 on large vessels really blows.
Amen to that! Played against Germans the other night who used Improved Rangefinders & radar locks to drop long-range shots on my Kongo with ease. The fact that they weren't AP hardly mattered against the lousy Armor 4. Gah! :evil:

Good report!

Frank in L.A.
Exactly. The original reason for suggesting these battles and tehrefore this this thread was the question "Given tournement play why would anyone ever choose a Kongo over a Nagato?"
frankinla
Shrew
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:05 pm

Re: Yamato & Kongo vs. KGV & Queen Elizabeth (Short

Postby frankinla » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:48 pm

Keith wrote: Exactly. The original reason for suggesting these battles and tehrefore this this thread was the question "Given tournement play why would anyone ever choose a Kongo over a Nagato?"
Of course, I figured this out after basing and painting a Kongo AND a Kirishima! Doh! :roll: Oh, well. You can never have too many minis. :)

Frank in L.A.
Davesaint
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:53 pm
Location: Lake Villa, IL

Postby Davesaint » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:50 pm

Captain_Nemo wrote:100 yards to the Inch? :shock: You all must have been on a gymnasium floor. What system were y'all using, Alex?
That would be Fletcher/Pratt. :wink:


Dave
DSV1
Mongoose
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:06 pm

Postby DSV1 » Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:07 am

I suppose it comes down to what ships you have in an area, you wouldnt use Kongo unless it was all you had. Like DM said in a campaign you might "have" to send her in against the RN if all your BB's were commited elsewhere.
User avatar
Soulmage
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 890
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:50 pm

Postby Soulmage » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:38 pm

Davesaint wrote:
Captain_Nemo wrote:100 yards to the Inch? :shock: You all must have been on a gymnasium floor. What system were y'all using, Alex?
That would be Fletcher/Pratt. :wink:


Dave
Fletcher Pratt is one person. . . and a relative of mine. :wink:

We actually just picked up the Fletcher Pratt rules so that we could run a 1/700 scale game at our local convention. They look like a lot of fun!

They are WWI based (Fletcher talks about the 'new Tirpitz!' LOL!!) but seem to be able to accomodate WWII ships just as well. We're not playing with aircraft, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Anyway, one website I read said that most battleships fall into the 150,000 - 190,000 point range. Its a scary difference when you start figuring the stats for WWII ships! Scharnhorst came out at around 190k (I forget the exact number). . . just for fun we plugged in Yamato. . . 355,000 points!!!! LOL!!

Incidentally, Iowa came in at about 340,000 points, and a Fletcher came in at around 8,800. So theoretically, an Iowa and a couple Fletchers ought to be an even match for Yamato under this system.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests