The joy of destroyers

Discuss the Victory at Sea range of naval games.

Moderator: rcbecker1

Poi
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1129
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 10:08 am
Location: Basingstoke, UK

The joy of destroyers

Postby Poi » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:06 pm

6 destroyers steaming straight towards enemy cruiser squadron. Nothing can hit them. They come alongside and unleash hell.

Heart ripped from cruiser formation with single torpedo salvo.

You gotta love destroyer squadrons.
Poi

Honk if Pluto is a planet
Myrm
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 847
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:09 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Postby Myrm » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:17 pm

..and with the IJN you get to do it again 2 turns later.
Poi
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1129
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 10:08 am
Location: Basingstoke, UK

Postby Poi » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:24 pm

How? IJN destroyers' torpedos are one shot, like everyone elses.
Poi

Honk if Pluto is a planet
Fitzwalrus
Mongoose
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Postby Fitzwalrus » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:41 pm

Hammer of Ulric wrote:How? IJN destroyers' torpedos are one shot, like everyone elses.
Fubuki-class DD's are One Shot.
Kagero-class DD's (and presumably the later follow-on classes of fleet DD's) have reloads and are Slow Loading.

You're preaching to the choir: the near-invulnerability of DD's at night was one of the first problems our group found in our first game.
"D*mmit, boys, they're getting away!" - anonymous US destroyer sailor commenting on Yamato's withdrawal at Samar, 1944.
Poi
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1129
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 10:08 am
Location: Basingstoke, UK

Postby Poi » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:00 pm

Now that I hadn't noticed. Skirmish level destroyers. Rude.
Poi

Honk if Pluto is a planet
Oly
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 400
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:33 pm
Location: London

Postby Oly » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:15 pm

I met this last week with even just regular cruisers going at flank speed and then need a 7 to be hit (hit 5+, long or extreme range).

A few people have suggested the old GW rules where a second die is rolled if you need to hit a 7+ and you roll a 6 with your first die. I think the second one needed a 4+ to hit a 7, 5+ for an 8 and 6 for a 9.

Has anyone tried that? Does it unbalance the game?
Myrm
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 847
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:09 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Postby Myrm » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:50 pm

Hammer of Ulric wrote:How? IJN destroyers' torpedos are one shot, like everyone elses.
As Fitz said - the Kagero - I found out quite by accident running my first game....I thought ooh good torp destroyer for the blockade run. It fired and sunk one enemy and I crossed the torps off and the player asked 'if they load slow how fast do I get them back'.....suddenly said destroyer looked scary
Soulmage
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 890
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:50 pm

Postby Soulmage » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:08 pm

A few people have suggested the old GW rules where a second die is rolled if you need to hit a 7+ and you roll a 6 with your first die. I think the second one needed a 4+ to hit a 7, 5+ for an 8 and 6 for a 9.

Has anyone tried that? Does it unbalance the game?
We play with this house rule and it works out just fine!

Actually considering another house rule that was suggested here that 2ndary weapons ignore the "target moving fast" penalty due to their ability to traverse faster than primary turrets.
DM
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2422
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:43 pm
Location: Gloucester, UK

Postby DM » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:11 pm

A few people have suggested the old GW rules where a second die is rolled if you need to hit a 7+ and you roll a 6 with your first die. I think the second one needed a 4+ to hit a 7, 5+ for an 8 and 6 for a 9.
LOL, Wargames Research Group used something like this (if not this exact rule) well before GW even existed :) I think I first came across it in their 1950-1985 micro armour rules (which, as an aside, were streets ahead of their "second edition" and are still a cracking set of 1:1 armour rules!)
DM's naval website, now moved to the NWS site
http://www.navalwargamessociety.org/nav ... links.html
Co-author "Order of Battle"
Author, "Age of Dreadnoughts"
Bloke who paints VAS ships for Matt
Bacon Number of 4 :D
Myrm
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 847
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:09 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Postby Myrm » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:23 pm

Oh my, WRG moderns....June 1979 is the date on my copy...

They used a similar rule - but if you needed more than 6 then you rolled, anything but a 4 missed. A 4 allowed a second roll of the dice to be added to the first dice to give a scale up to 10.
Darilian
Shrew
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:40 pm

Postby Darilian » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:31 am

The 'infinite' torpedoes of the IJN really makes my skin crawl. Yes, they had reloads. No, they didn't reload them in battle situations. Nor, did they have more than ONE reload available at any given time. (Two at the outside). Personally, I feel that for any battle, a given IJN ship has ONE shot with their torpedoes. In our upcoming campaign, we are going to allow reloading ships to 'reload' between battles, without having to go to port- its an 'operational' advantage, and not a tactical one.

Darilian
You have to be happy with what you have to be happy with!
Steelwhip
Shrew
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:47 pm
Location: Seattle Wa

Postby Steelwhip » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:20 am

thats the way we have been doing it at my LGS Darilian. the only thing that has slow reloads with us are Subs.....and we are looking at changing that as well.....
The question is not how far to go. But rather, do you have the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as needed.
Image
Darilian
Shrew
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:40 pm

Postby Darilian » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:44 am

We haven't played enough submarine against convoy battles yet, so that issue hasn't come up yet, steelwhip. I'd be on the fence- at least a submarine has horizontal reloading- vs. the IJN's VERTICAL (use a crane, lift them up, drop them down) reloads :shock:. However, you're probably right- it would make Subs more likely to 'stick around' longer than they should. Haven't tried it yet though, need to do so.

I do know that in the many games of IJN vs. USN we've played, those infinite Long Lances have almost broken the game. :cry:

Darilian
You have to be happy with what you have to be happy with!
Happy_Wanderer
Shrew
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:17 pm

Is 6 always a hit?

Postby Happy_Wanderer » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:52 am

Gents,

Could some one confirm (with a rules reference if one exists) that targets that accumulate a 7 or more to hit actually can't be fired at in the turn ie they are invulnerable?

We have been playing that a 6 is always a hit regardless of 'to hit' numbers beyond 6.

Which is the correct way.

Cheers

HappyW
Steelwhip
Shrew
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:47 pm
Location: Seattle Wa

Postby Steelwhip » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:19 am

Darilian wrote:We haven't played enough submarine against convoy battles yet, so that issue hasn't come up yet, steelwhip. I'd be on the fence- at least a submarine has horizontal reloading- vs. the IJN's VERTICAL (use a crane, lift them up, drop them down) reloads :shock:. However, you're probably right- it would make Subs more likely to 'stick around' longer than they should. Haven't tried it yet though, need to do so.

I do know that in the many games of IJN vs. USN we've played, those infinite Long Lances have almost broken the game. :cry:

Darilian
we have been thinking of extending the reload times to 2 turns instead of 1 turn for Subs...our resident bubble head (4 years in the Navy all on sub duty) says that it may be more in line....we havnt doen enough with subs yet as well....so were still looking at it
The question is not how far to go. But rather, do you have the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as needed.
Image
DM
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2422
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:43 pm
Location: Gloucester, UK

Postby DM » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:55 am

The 'infinite' torpedoes of the IJN really makes my skin crawl.
Its simple enough to say "one reload only"

Yes, they had reloads. No, they didn't reload them in battle situations.

Yes they did. Its well documented.
DM's naval website, now moved to the NWS site
http://www.navalwargamessociety.org/nav ... links.html
Co-author "Order of Battle"
Author, "Age of Dreadnoughts"
Bloke who paints VAS ships for Matt
Bacon Number of 4 :D
Wulf Corbett
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4314
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:19 pm
Location: Scotland

Postby Wulf Corbett » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:09 am

Darilian wrote:The 'infinite' torpedoes of the IJN really makes my skin crawl. Yes, they had reloads. No, they didn't reload them in battle situations.
They did you know. A major advantage, especially with Long Lance

Wulf
Poi
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1129
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 10:08 am
Location: Basingstoke, UK

Postby Poi » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:12 am

Makes a stand off battle line of cruisers and/or Kagero DDs very nasty. You daren't move in for the kill. At least they'll be showing their beam to your long range guns.
Poi

Honk if Pluto is a planet
Oly
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 400
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:33 pm
Location: London

Re: Is 6 always a hit?

Postby Oly » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:53 am

Happy_Wanderer wrote:Could some one confirm (with a rules reference if one exists) that targets that accumulate a 7 or more to hit actually can't be fired at in the turn ie they are invulnerable?

We have been playing that a 6 is always a hit regardless of 'to hit' numbers beyond 6.
Page 7, Firing:
"A 1 is always considered to be a miss. However a natural 6 is not always considered a hit".

So by the rules if you need to roll a 7 to hit (say 5+ to hit, -1 for speed, -1 for range) then you can't do it.
Happy_Wanderer
Shrew
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:17 pm

7+ to hit

Postby Happy_Wanderer » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:21 am

On second reading, I think we'll need to adjust that. 7+ = no hit unless using the 7= 6 and 4 system, etc.

Cheers

HappyW

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest