Victory at Sea Supplement - who would buy it?

Discuss the Victory at Sea range of naval games.

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Makoto
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Postby Makoto » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:07 pm

If You'd be so kind - with strawberry jam please ^^

Although this book would cost a bit, I'd be willing to pay. I'd be even more willing should there be WWI ships.
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Postby Myrm » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:23 pm

~I'd go for

WWI supplement
Post War supplement - before the 'Missile Age', or maybe not actually.
An 'Advanced Rules' supplement that adds rules - like land interaction, advanced air rules, the small boats etc
A good 'Ship Reference' manual
Scenarios seems to be the province of S&P
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Postby DM » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:39 pm

WW1 will probably be a "supplement" in its own right, or a separate set of rules. There are enough differences to warrant this (plus the scale for ship statting will be different).
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Postby jfox61 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:35 pm

Yes Wulf, I am complaining about exactly that and yes I would have liked them all in one book. It is after all a rulebook and contains fleet lists about a historical period. The information is there they don't have to make it up. The rules are not cheap £20. Nor are the Minis I have chosen to use. I have used thes minis for nearly 10 years so were not a choice specifically for this game. I use 2 other sets of rules for my naval games, neither of them fast play I must add, but they are available for a fraction of the cost. These rules are General quarters by Navwar, an exellent set but take ages to get a game finished, and a set called Sea wars fleet actions, very similar in respect to GQ. GQ retails for around £5 and the latter set at £8. Although they are not hard back both these sets contain ship types for all the ships used in WWII. So you see it can be done and at a fraction of the cost so I believe I have a valid point when it comes to companies like this taking advantage of the goodwill of their customers. I like the game, it is a high quality product so like a fool I will purchase the supplements. Marmalade I don't like jam
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Postby Burger » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:41 pm

Wulf Corbett wrote:So, you're complaining that not every ship of every fleet in every navy in the whole of WW2 wasn't included in one book? Would you like it hand delivered? Jam on it?
You really do walk into these yourself don't you Wulf :lol:
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DM
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Postby DM » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:09 pm

Sea wars fleet actions
Is that the A&AGE set?

Part of the "problem" with VAS is the format that is require for ship stats. The inclusion of a capsule history and picture, plus extraneous data such as crew and displacement, uses up a lot of space.
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Postby jfox61 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:21 pm

Yes it is the A&A Games set. I also understand what you say about the extra fluff and detail involved as well as the extra space needed. I for one would have been happy to pay another £10-15 to have this included in one volume though for a more complete game. The big problem with companies like this is the time it takes to release a supplement because they have other products to cater for too. Meaning we may have to wait anywhere from 6 to 18 months to see it. What if the company decides it isn't economically viable. We won't see it at all.
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Postby Reaverman » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:49 pm

Burger wrote:
Wulf Corbett wrote:So, you're complaining that not every ship of every fleet in every navy in the whole of WW2 wasn't included in one book? Would you like it hand delivered? Jam on it?
You really do walk into these yourself don't you Wulf :lol:
I wonder whether he uses a spade, or a JCB :P
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Postby Oly » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:56 pm

jfox61 wrote:I for one would have been happy to pay another £10-15 to have this included in one volume though for a more complete game.
I'm going to be a very casual gamer (well I say that, more than doubled my fleet at Navwar last Saturday) and to me the game being under £20 including loads of counters was a huge factor in me picking it up.

To my eyes it did, indeed it still does, look pretty complete. Sure some ships are missing but there's enough in there to keep me happy for more than a while.

I'm not sure how typical I am of the market that Mongoose might have been going for though....
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Postby jfox61 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:05 pm

But that is my point you see you bought the game liked it as I must add I do. But then you go out and buy ships to match the lists in the rule book. So for you no wasted metal. Don't get me wrong I am not saying it isn't worth £20 but as someone already playing the period it isn't complete enough considering the investment I have made in minis.
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:08 pm

jfox61 wrote:But that is my point you see you bought the game liked it as I must add I do. But then you go out and buy ships to match the lists in the rule book.
Perhaps you should have informed Mongoose of your preferences before the book was printed, and they could have designed it to your specifications?

I can't believe you're seriously putting this forward as a complaint. It tops the list of silly complaints if you are.

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Postby Burger » Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:09 pm

jfox61 wrote:But that is my point you see you bought the game liked it as I must add I do. But then you go out and buy ships to match the lists in the rule book. So for you no wasted metal. Don't get me wrong I am not saying it isn't worth £20 but as someone already playing the period it isn't complete enough considering the investment I have made in minis.
Hang on; you're saying that Mongoose's product is not complete enough to support the investment you made in some other company's minis? I fail to see how this is Mongoose's fault.

Thats like buying 200 gallons of petrol, then buying a diesel car and blaming the car company for not being able to use your petrol stockpile.
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Postby jfox61 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:02 pm

No Burger thats not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that there are other products out that that at a fraction of the cost have included ship data for all ship types in their rules at one go. They understand that to sell a historical set of rules you need as comprehensive data set as possible. It is after all a historical game. The data is available. This has nothing to do with how many Minis I have or don't have. As far as I can see it is a purely commercial decision not to create the data sets for the missing ship types. See how the game sell and if it warrants it release more data sets to the gamers
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Postby tneva82 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:06 pm

jfox61 wrote:As far as I can see it is a purely commercial decision not to create the data sets for the missing ship types. See how the game sell and if it warrants it release more data sets to the gamers
It might also be that most of the missing variants have only minor differences and Mongoose didn't want to delay game launch further for several months for them.
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Postby Soulmage » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:07 pm

All the missing ships. I have large amounts of ships that I can't use because they haven't included the class in the rules. Bugs the life out of me that I buy a game that is to all intents and purposes not complete and it doesn't inform you on the cover that this is the case. Yet another company leaning to towards the dark side of GW. Give the punter a worm and let them bite. So now if they do actually do a supplement I have to fork out more cash to them to complete the game.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!

This just officially killed any chance of me ever starting up a game company on the side or something.

I would rapidly be out of business because I would be unable to restrain myself when confronted with blatant stupidity!!
Don't get me wrong I am not saying it isn't worth £20 but as someone already playing the period it isn't complete enough considering the investment I have made in minis.
If its worth the money, then you got your money's worth and you will get more money's worth when you buy the supplement, so please STFU!



Sorry everyone. . . this is truly the most ridiculous of the ridiculous internet bitching I have ever seen!!
Last edited by Soulmage on Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Burger » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:08 pm

jfox61 wrote:As far as I can see it is a purely commercial decision not to create the data sets for the missing ship types. See how the game sell and if it warrants it release more data sets to the gamers
Well yeah, VaS was originally going to be given away free in S&P. But there was so much demand, they made a book out of it and sold it. More data is given away every month, in S&P.
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Wulf Corbett
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:11 pm

Soulmage wrote:OMG!!!!!!!!!!
etc...

Now, there, you see, I AM subtle. I AM restrained.

Wulf
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Postby jfox61 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:28 pm

Ruffled your feathers soulmage. I don't know if you realised but this is a forum. Constructive criticism is what it is all about not as you call it internet bitching don't like the discussion don't listen to it. Just because I think it is good value doesn't mean to say it doesn't have faults. These are my obsevations people disagree with me some agree but isn't that what freedom of thought is all about. Just because I am on a mongoose forum doesn't mean I have to climb up their backside and agree with everything they do does it. As I said I like the product I like the gameplay but i would rather have paid £40 and had a complet list rather than have to wait. Call me impatient but thats me. Oh yes and btw no need to be abusive.
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Postby Leadman » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:58 pm

[quote
If its worth the money, then you got your money's worth and you will get more money's worth when you buy the supplement, so please STFU!



Sorry everyone. . . this is truly the most ridiculous of the ridiculous internet bitching I have ever seen!![/quote]

While I don't agree with much of what jfox61 has to say, this has been a friendly forum and he has the right to express his opinion without this type of over the top commentary. If you don't agree with him, express yourself in mature adult terms. I hope that this forum doen't turn into the type of forum that you see over at Battlefront for Flames of War.

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Postby Court Jester » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:58 pm

I don't see the problem with jfox61's comment. The fleet lists are not complete and there are games out there for a fraction of the cost that are. He feels this is a letdown.

Simple.

He feels let down by this, others do not see it as an issue.

Lets refrain from such wonderful abbreviations as STFU, OMG!!!!!!! and others of their ilk.

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