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Discuss the Victory at Sea range of naval games.

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msprange
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Preview Available

Postby msprange » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:04 pm

Hi guys,

We have just posted a preview of Victory at Sea, on its own page on the web site.
Matthew Sprange

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Postby Alexb83 » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:12 pm

Looks very good - have you also considered expanding it to cover WW1? There's potential for some pretty colossal battles there. (Jutland as it could have been?). I've done a little bit of WW1 mini fleet action gaming with my group, but it always turned out a bit one-sided for the british. Better gunnery always seemed to trump better armour.

I've played a little bit of tabletop harpoon - that can be a very suspenseful game, but very complicated. Perhaps it's just all the extra rules you have to consider for modern warships.
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Postby msprange » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:14 pm

We'll have to see how Victory at Sea sells before we consider a WWI update :)

However, we already have a huge amount of supplemental material being written for S&P, so this will likely be a very well supported game!
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Postby Alexb83 » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:19 pm

Out of interest, is Mongoose going to be manufacturing its own range of minis for VaS, or as mentioned in the preview is it a case of just finding a good 1/6000 or 1/2000 range and using that?

A WW1 update shouldn't be too tough - most of the line battleships in WW2 had quite a vintage to them.

Oooh, and out of interest, are we going to see U-boats? :)
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Postby Shadow Queen » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:19 pm

Would there be a modern day expantion for the game?
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Postby msprange » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:24 pm

Hi guys,

A lot of questions :)

1. We are not looking to producing our own miniatures range.

2. There are indeed u-boats in the game, and you can run your very own wolf packs.

3. We are not currently looking at a modern expansion for VaS, but you never know. . .
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Postby Shadow Queen » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:26 pm

msprange wrote:Hi guys,

A lot of questions :)

1. We are not looking to producing our own miniatures range.

2. There are indeed u-boats in the game, and you can run your very own wolf packs.

3. We are not currently looking at a modern expansion for VaS, but you never know. . .
I was just thinking of the next progression to the next level thanks for the quick responce
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:31 pm

Alexb83 wrote:I've played a little bit of tabletop harpoon - that can be a very suspenseful game, but very complicated. Perhaps it's just all the extra rules you have to consider for modern warships.
One thing about VaS, it is not complicated. It's possibly even simpler than ACtA.

And it's got the Graf Zeppelin Carrier...

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Postby locarno24 » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:34 pm

DAMN YOU MONGOOSE FOR PRODUCING MORE GAMES I NEED TO BUY!!!
<Shakes fist forlornly>

Seriously, looks very good. The Call to Arms influence is well done, but I like the swap to target/attack dice, armour/damage dice.

How are aircraft going to work, out of curiousity? Presumably they cant use the auxilliary craft mechanic given the difference in speed....
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Postby Alexb83 » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:36 pm

The Graf Zeppelin? So... you get an uncomissioned hulk to wage war with? :) Or is it just for the 'sink the target ship!' scenario for the russian navy? :lol:
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:37 pm

locarno24 wrote:How are aircraft going to work, out of curiousity? Presumably they cant use the auxilliary craft mechanic given the difference in speed....
Believe me, that one was a great point of contention :lol: The result is a semi-abstract movement rate - OK, aircraft are too slow, but they can't be outrun by Heavy Cruisers... :roll:

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Postby Wulf Corbett » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:38 pm

Alexb83 wrote:The Graf Zeppelin? So... you get an uncomissioned hulk to wage war with? :) Or is it just for the 'sink the target ship!' scenario for the russian navy? :lol:
The Russians are not in the game... yet...

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Postby Alexb83 » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:38 pm

Wulf Corbett wrote:
locarno24 wrote:How are aircraft going to work, out of curiousity? Presumably they cant use the auxilliary craft mechanic given the difference in speed....
Believe me, that one was a great point of contention :lol: The result is a semi-abstract movement rate - OK, aircraft are too slow, but they can't be outrun by Heavy Cruisers... :roll:

Wulf
Have you gone to the length of giving them limited flight time and weapon payloads? (one attack only, no more than so many turns in the air) that sort of thing?
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:44 pm

Alexb83 wrote:Have you gone to the length of giving them limited flight time and weapon payloads? (one attack only, no more than so many turns in the air) that sort of thing?
No flight duration times (I think... can't remember any!), but there are One-Shot weapons - look at the Torpedo loads on the ships in the Preview.

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Postby Shadow Queen » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:50 pm

some ships are for the carriers protection
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:52 pm

Shadow Queen wrote:some ships are for the carriers protection
One good thing about this game, no third dimension to abstract out (barring aircraft, which are all, generally speaking, 'up'...)

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Postby Alexb83 » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:56 pm

Hmm, bearing in mind the restriction to aircraft movement rates, are tables going to be restricted to 6x4? I like standardised table sizes, but I can see how this could limit engagements and misrepresent ranges a bit. (what does 1 inch equate to in miles, and so on). WW2 gunnery was supposedly effective (with proper spotting) out beyond the horizon - around 40km.

Of course fighters can outrun warships - surely we're talking 100s of kts instead of 20 or so. But I guess you've had to limit this for practical purposes?

Some of the WW1 games we've played have made full use of our groups rather colossal 12x8 table, to great effect. Big tables make for very epic engagements, and you rarely have to worry about leaving table edges.
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:13 pm

Alexb83 wrote:Hmm, bearing in mind the restriction to aircraft movement rates, are tables going to be restricted to 6x4?
Well, it's not limited to that, but as a standard gaming table size, the scenarios are written for it (see examples in the preview).
I like standardised table sizes, but I can see how this could limit engagements and misrepresent ranges a bit. (what does 1 inch equate to in miles, and so on). WW2 gunnery was supposedly effective (with proper spotting) out beyond the horizon - around 40km.
We debated ranges quite a bit, and generally, from the evidence available, we disagreed with this figure... quite a bit :P There was a fixed conversion table for ranges, weights, crew, etc, but I can't remember it offhand. Unlike ACtA, it IS possible to convert your own ships from real-world data, but I don't know if the conversion will be in the book.
Of course fighters can outrun warships - surely we're talking 100s of kts instead of 20 or so. But I guess you've had to limit this for practical purposes?
Exactly. Given the time constraints of a Turn (you have to be capable of some meaningful action in each Turn), we had to abstract air movement. Otherwise you would have to choose between aircraft zipping across the table instantly, or shells being tracked through flight in 2-3 turns while aircraft moved at reasonable speeds...

As far as ranges go, simply convert to cm instead of inches..

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Postby Alexb83 » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:16 pm

Well, I guess 40km is a very liberal theoretical maximum range for gunnery from 15-16 inch guns :)
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:20 pm

Alexb83 wrote:Well, I guess 40km is a very liberal theoretical maximum range for gunnery from 15-16 inch guns :)
Oh, they had the range, no doubt. And if you were aiming at a large enough island, you might hit after a few salvoes :lol:

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