Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Discuss the Victory at Sea range of naval games.

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msprange
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Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby msprange » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:45 pm

Good afternoon, fellow Admirals!

We have spoken before about the mythical second edition of Victory at Sea. Well, you can now see a draft of the first few chapters, right here:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/VaSPlaytest.zip

This includes everything you need to get going, with a couple of fleet lists and scenarios, and we would be very happy to hear any comments (good or bad!). A few things to bear in mind as you go through these documents:

* The Advanced Rules (along with MTBs, aircraft, coastal invasions (really cool!), submersibles and others) are not yet included. Still doing work on them. However, you will find them referenced in these documents. Ignore them for now.

* The points costs in the fleet lists will almost certainly change. Don't get caught up about which ship is more powerful than another at this stage.

* The Victory at Sea scenario is... experimental and, perversely, has had the least amount of internal testing despite it being the titled scenario!

* You will find the refits in the fleet lists to be extensive (and hopefully very accurate - the Official Naval Boffins went to town on this bit!). However, we are unsure exactly how to present them, or even if they are worthwhile. One concern is that the rulebook already passes the 300 page mark...


By all means make comments in this thread, we will keep an eye on it, and update you later on with the advanced rules.
Matthew Sprange

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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby Garydee » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:03 pm

You da man, Matt!
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby Garydee » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:47 pm

Does radar still let you subtract long and extreme ranges by 1? It'd be helpful to know that.
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby Garydee » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:23 am

I still think it's too easy to be invulnerable at times. Fire a torpedo and all the target has to do is evade. The target can't be hit unless it's at point blank range. Of course this might be done on purpose because torps are really powerful.
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby msprange » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:06 am

Torps are certainly something that need an eye kept on.

Radar is one of the mechanics we are taking a close look at - at the moment, they work but are a tad complex.
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby msprange » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:20 am

Speaking of Torpedoes, you might find this excerpt from the Advanced Rules chapter of interest:

Evading Torpedoes
When under attack from torpedo, a ship’s crew can attempt to spot the incoming wake and take evasive action to minimise the chances of being hit.

Immediately make an Opposed Crew Quality check (see pXX) between the attacking ship and its target. Assume aircraft-launching torpedoes have a Crew Quality of 5 in this case. If the target ship succeeds in the check, an additional –1 penalty is imposed on the Attack Dice of the torpedoes. If multiple enemies are launching torpedoes at the same ship, it must make an Opposed Crew Quality check against every enemy.

Ships that did not move at least 3” in the turn or are performing Special Actions may not attempt to evade torpedoes.
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby Garydee » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:30 pm

One thing I would like you to do is that on a natural 6 to hit, roll another 6. On this second roll a 4 is 7, 5 is 8 and a 6 is 9. You wouldn't have to worry about invincible ships again for the most part. I think it It would help the game. We already reroll a 6 for crits.
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby evilsam » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:26 pm

Hi Matt, thanks for posting this! I have a question on turning. After reading the Movement Phase doc, it doesn't mention much about turning except the limit of 45 degrees. I seem to remember from version one there was some kind of template that was used for turning and that turning was based on the stern of the ship model.
Does this still apply or is there a new method? Is there anyway to get a preview of the missing graphic?
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby Greg Smith » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:58 am

Can a ship that performs Come About! make two 90 degree turns?
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby msprange » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:07 pm

evilsam wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:26 pm
After reading the Movement Phase doc, it doesn't mention much about turning except the limit of 45 degrees. I seem to remember from version one there was some kind of template that was used for turning and that turning was based on the stern of the ship model.
Does this still apply or is there a new method? Is there anyway to get a preview of the missing graphic?
Simply rotate the model about its centre.
Greg Smith wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:58 am
Can a ship that performs Come About! make two 90 degree turns?
It can make two turns - but why would they be 90 degrees (not sure I am following you)?

Good to see you back, Greg.


Incidentally, for everyone's benefit, we are going to be doing an Open Playtest for VaS 2.0, so you can consider the current Zip file a preview for the veterans of this forum. I am currently integrating all the notes received form the Official Naval Boffins (which are a lot, this edition of the game is going to be packed), and will initially focus on the Royal Navy and Kriegsmarine, and contain all the basic rules and the 'advanced' chapter.

After that, we will add the rest of the fleets as well as the 'special' stuff such as Submersibles (now effectively a mini-game), aircraft and coastal invasions. There is a lot to get through (I am not kidding when I say this edition is packed - it may end up looking a lot like the Pirates of Drinax in format), and I hope you will all join us on this journey!
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby msprange » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:10 pm

Actually, while I have you chaps...

We are giving some serious thought to allowing 7+ armour for the very toughest ships, which will effectively make them immune to small guns (kinda the point of battleships...) by rejigging our armour formulae. If you want to give the following a whirl, I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts...

Royal Navy Fleet
G-3-class Battlecruiser: 5+ changes to 6+
Hood-class Battlecruiser: 4+ changes to 5+
King George V-class Battleship: 6+ changes to 7+
Lion-class Battleship: 6+ changes to 7+
N-3-class Battleship: 6+ changes to 7+
Nelson-class Battleship: 6+ changes to 7+
Renown (not Repulse)-class Battlecruiser: 4+ changes to 5+
Roberts-class Monitor: 4+ changes to 3+
Vanguard-class Battleship: 6+ changes to 7+

Kriegsmarine Fleet
Bismarck-class Battleship: 5+ changes to 6+
H-39-class Battleship: 5+ changes to 6+
Spahkreuzer-class Light Cruiser: +1 changes to +2
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby Garydee » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:15 pm

msprange wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:10 pm
Actually, while I have you chaps...

We are giving some serious thought to allowing 7+ armour for the very toughest ships, which will effectively make them immune to small guns (kinda the point of battleships...) by rejigging our armour formulae. If you want to give the following a whirl, I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts...

Royal Navy Fleet
G-3-class Battlecruiser: 5+ changes to 6+
Hood-class Battlecruiser: 4+ changes to 5+
King George V-class Battleship: 6+ changes to 7+
Lion-class Battleship: 6+ changes to 7+
N-3-class Battleship: 6+ changes to 7+
Nelson-class Battleship: 6+ changes to 7+
Renown (not Repulse)-class Battlecruiser: 4+ changes to 5+
Roberts-class Monitor: 4+ changes to 3+
Vanguard-class Battleship: 6+ changes to 7+

Kriegsmarine Fleet
Bismarck-class Battleship: 5+ changes to 6+
H-39-class Battleship: 5+ changes to 6+
Spahkreuzer-class Light Cruiser: +1 changes to +2
Hmm. The thing is even the biggest armored battleships were still vulnerable to shots on the deck. I think keeping armor at 6 works well for me.
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby msprange » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:21 am

Garydee wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:15 pm
Hmm. The thing is even the biggest armored battleships were still vulnerable to shots on the deck. I think keeping armor at 6 works well for me.
Doesn't the plunging fire rule take care of that..?
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby Garydee » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:18 pm

msprange wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:21 am
Garydee wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:15 pm
Hmm. The thing is even the biggest armored battleships were still vulnerable to shots on the deck. I think keeping armor at 6 works well for me.
Doesn't the plunging fire rule take care of that..?
I forgot about that rule. That will work. :)
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby kamenski » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:43 pm

hummmm, Nelson, Lion and N3 Classes are still over powerfull, is it a good idea to increase their armour to 7+ ? Remember, ships with small guns not gathered into turrets don't have the +1 to damage at long range, as far as they can shot at this range.
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby msprange » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:01 pm

kamenski wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:43 pm
hummmm, Nelson, Lion and N3 Classes are still over powerfull, is it a good idea to increase their armour to 7+ ? Remember, ships with small guns not gathered into turrets don't have the +1 to damage at long range, as far as they can shot at this range.
Actually, we have just added a rule that lets Light Guns benefit from plunging fire - you will see it in the revision.

As for the Big Boys... smaller vessels might do a lot better with torpedoes and/or aerial support - the traditional enemies of the large ships.
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby Greg Smith » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:45 am

msprange wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:07 pm
Greg Smith wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:58 am
Can a ship that performs Come About! make two 90 degree turns?
It can make two turns - but why would they be 90 degrees (not sure I am following you)?
A ship can make one turn of 45 degrees after moving 2". It can makes multiple turns, turning after every 2" . If it comes about it can make 2 turns after 2" - so 90 degrees. Can it then move 2 " and get a further 2 turns, ie a second 90 degree turn?
Good to see you back, Greg.
Good to be back. I am looking forward to this book.
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby locarno24 » Mon May 21, 2018 11:57 am

msprange wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:21 am
Garydee wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:15 pm
Hmm. The thing is even the biggest armored battleships were still vulnerable to shots on the deck. I think keeping armor at 6 works well for me.
Doesn't the plunging fire rule take care of that..?
It does, provided the ship doesn't have Armoured Deck. Which all 7+ armoured ships in the playtest pack have.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby DSV1 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:48 pm

carrier aircraft flights

umm probably a daft question but how do I know what aircraft were on a carrier as the carrier just says 10 flights for example ?. or am I missing a document ?

I know the boffins out there can ream them off but I am not that clever !

thanks

Pete
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Re: Victory at Sea Playtesting - Basic Rules

Postby msprange » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:30 am

DSV1 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:48 pm
umm probably a daft question but how do I know what aircraft were on a carrier as the carrier just says 10 flights for example ?. or am I missing a document ?
Well, this has been the topic of some debate :)

We were originally going to provide exact load outs, but they changed so often throughout the war that this seemed unworkable. As things stand, you are free to select whichever aircraft seem appropriate, though we will be speccing exact loads for scenarios.
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