Firing into a Crowd

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jux
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Firing into a Crowd

Postby jux » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:37 am

I need clarification on this. The rules say:
If a covered location is hit by the attack, the firer has hit one of the individuals adjacent to the target (the Games Master will decide who).
So I shoot into melee, my target is partially covered by a friendly. Mechanically, how will I hit the covered location? How will I accidentally hit the friendly?

This is what I think:
a) I roll successfully on a bow skill and the choose not to pick right hit-location. I will roll randomly the hit-location and it happens to be covered location. (In this situation, I would never do it)
b) I just fail with the bow skill roll.
Olaus Petrus
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Re: Firing into a Crowd

Postby Olaus Petrus » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:51 am

Firing into crowd mostly uses normal cover rules, so if you don't use choose location combat manoeuvre you risk hitting another person. If person is in the middle of the crowd there might be only one safe location to hit him (or none at all and you'll just have to hope that person(s) in front of him will evade and your arrow hits the original target.)

Mechanically you don't hit another person if you fail ranged attack test (although there's a fumble where you hit your ally), although the GM can always decide otherwise, for example if the attempted shot is really stupid, like trying to shoot an enemy through the opening between the legs of your party member etc. In normal conditions the missed arrow hits the ground, flies over the crowd, hits the wall of a nearby building etc. But naturally if the crowd is most logical place for the missed arrow to hit, then the GM can decide that the missed arrow might hit someone in the crowd if the test is failure. In these cases it's polite to tell the players in advance that the shot is likely to hit someone else if he/she fails.
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Re: Firing into a Crowd

Postby Bifford » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:28 pm

I would say to them the following:

"You can take the shot, but as there are other people in the way you will need to use "Choose Location" and take a CA to prepare your shot. There will also be a penalty of 10 (or -15 if it's really hard) to your roll to hit. Be aware that a fumble may mean hitting someone else, and a fail....well...I'll explain that if it happens."

(this would be something like the arrow nicks the face of the person next to them, drawing blood and stinging that person, and tipping off your target that you were shooting at him. The person cut by the arrow then gets enraged and causes a confusion meaning you loose sight of the subject completely, who uses the occasion to slip quietly away.)
jux
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Re: Firing into a Crowd

Postby jux » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:42 pm

But that is the point! In this example, one always chooses the "choose location" combat maneuver, when hits. So there is no way to hit the covered location, unless one is really careless.
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Re: Firing into a Crowd

Postby Bifford » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:50 pm

jux wrote: So I shoot into melee, my target is partially covered by a friendly. Mechanically, how will I hit the covered location? How will I accidentally hit the friendly?
Okay, to answer the above question in as simple a way as possible:

The player fails the roll.
Hopeless
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Re: Firing into a Crowd

Postby Hopeless » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:37 am

I assume if your character's bow skill is say 60% and the gm rules a 40% penalty because of the crowd your target is running through if you roll 21-60 then you hit someone in the crowd.

Aimed shot merely makes that more difficult, I'd assume if your gm was feeling kind they'd reduce the penalty to 30 and simply rule you hit a member of the crowd on say 31-45 perhaps but maybe I'm being too severe?
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Re: Firing into a Crowd

Postby soltakss » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:58 pm

jux wrote:I need clarification on this. The rules say:
If a covered location is hit by the attack, the firer has hit one of the individuals adjacent to the target (the Games Master will decide who).
So I shoot into melee, my target is partially covered by a friendly. Mechanically, how will I hit the covered location? How will I accidentally hit the friendly?

This is what I think:
a) I roll successfully on a bow skill and the choose not to pick right hit-location. I will roll randomly the hit-location and it happens to be covered location. (In this situation, I would never do it)
b) I just fail with the bow skill roll.
If you hit the covered location then you hit the friendly. There are many examples in films, TV and real life where this happens. If the GM feels nice then the friendly could get a Luck Roll to avoid the hit. If the friendly struggles, then you could rule that there is an opening if the friendly makes a Luck Roll. If you aim at a specific location then you will hit it on a successful hit but will miss on a failure. So, someone covering their abdomen and chest with a friendly could still be hit in the head, but not in the chest/abdomen.

Of course, if the hit does enough damage to get through the armour of the friendly twice (front and back) and do double the location's HPs and get through the hostile's locational armour, it could still do damage. So, an orc holds a leather-wearing child in front of his abdomen, the child has 1 point armour and 3 points in the abdomen, the orc has 4 point armour, so any missile doing more than 1+3+3+1+4 (12) damage will do damage to the orc. Not great for the kid, though.
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Olaus Petrus
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Re: Firing into a Crowd

Postby Olaus Petrus » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:38 pm

soltakss wrote:If you hit the covered location then you hit the friendly. There are many examples in films, TV and real life where this happens. If the GM feels nice then the friendly could get a Luck Roll to avoid the hit. If the friendly struggles, then you could rule that there is an opening if the friendly makes a Luck Roll. If you aim at a specific location then you will hit it on a successful hit but will miss on a failure. So, someone covering their abdomen and chest with a friendly could still be hit in the head, but not in the chest/abdomen.
Actually it's evade or parry test. There's no such skill or characteristic as luck:
Legend, pages 141-143 wrote:If a covered location is hit by the attack, the firer has hit one of the individuals adjacent to the
target (the Games Master will decide who). The accidental target may try to evade or parry this
attack as normal. If the attack damages the accidental target, roll the Hit Location randomly

If the accidental target successfully evades a ranged attack, the projectile continues on its original
path and may strike the intended target. The intended target may also attempt to evade or parry
the attack as normal.
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Re: Firing into a Crowd

Postby HalfOrc HalfBiscuit » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:35 am

jux wrote:But that is the point! In this example, one always chooses the "choose location" combat maneuver, when hits. So there is no way to hit the covered location, unless one is really careless.
There was quite a long discussion on this some while back - my personal preference is to make Choose Location a critical only CM for ranged weapons.
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Re: Firing into a Crowd

Postby soltakss » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:51 am

Olaus Petrus wrote:Actually it's evade or parry test. There's no such skill or characteristic as luck:
Legend, pages 141-143 wrote:If a covered location is hit by the attack, the firer has hit one of the individuals adjacent to the
target (the Games Master will decide who). The accidental target may try to evade or parry this
attack as normal. If the attack damages the accidental target, roll the Hit Location randomly

If the accidental target successfully evades a ranged attack, the projectile continues on its original
path and may strike the intended target. The intended target may also attempt to evade or parry
the attack as normal.
Someone who is held, as a human shield, would probably have a penalty to their Evade. Bystanders would probably not get an Evade roll. Someone who was aware of the attack might get an Evade roll.
Simon Phipp - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982.

Merrie England (Medieval RPG): http://merrieengland.soltakss.com/index.html
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Olaus Petrus
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Re: Firing into a Crowd

Postby Olaus Petrus » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:27 pm

soltakss wrote:
Olaus Petrus wrote:Actually it's evade or parry test. There's no such skill or characteristic as luck:
Legend, pages 141-143 wrote:If a covered location is hit by the attack, the firer has hit one of the individuals adjacent to the
target (the Games Master will decide who). The accidental target may try to evade or parry this
attack as normal. If the attack damages the accidental target, roll the Hit Location randomly

If the accidental target successfully evades a ranged attack, the projectile continues on its original
path and may strike the intended target. The intended target may also attempt to evade or parry
the attack as normal.
Someone who is held, as a human shield, would probably have a penalty to their Evade. Bystanders would probably not get an Evade roll. Someone who was aware of the attack might get an Evade roll.
I would make them roll if they will notice the shot or not (with appropriate penalties if they are looking into wrong direction). In certain circumstances it can completely suprise them.

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