can I say hi here?

Discover the Legend RPG, Mongoose's fantasy game.
Carew
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can I say hi here?

Postby Carew » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:23 pm

I'm new to the d100 system and got given Legend by a friend. Loving it! So wanted to say hi and exchange ideas and information and things like that because this board seems like its friendly. I was on another board but it was all Pathfinder and D&D and they didn't seem to rate Legend at all. There loss.

So hi. My first queston if people want to answer it is how Legend is different to RQ6? I saw there was a kickstarter for that book but because I was given Legend I didn't back it and besides I've yet to runa Legend game so no point, right?

And any tips on running Legend games for someone whos run Pathfinder, D&D and Fate?
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby strega » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:30 pm

Hi, welcome to the boards. Legend was written by the same guys that went on to write RQ6 which is an updated version of the same rules with some slight changes in names of skills and some clarifications in some of the more unclear parts.

You'll be fine with Legend and the D100 system opens up a huge back catalogue of different options. Not only is all the Legend material available to use but you can use Deus Vult with little effort for a very different world and alse earlier material published by Chaosium and many other companies.

The mix and match options can give you incredible choice is settings and feel for a campaign. The basic, underlying, system goes back more than thirty years and covers everything so fantasy ala D&D. Swords and Sorcery ala Moorcock, Lieber and Ashton Smith, Planetary Romance ala Burroughs and many more are just a net search away.
My Getting started with Legend file including a suggested starting adventure.

My Romano-British Game setting.
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby Carew » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:11 pm

thanks strega!

I knew a bit of the history but thought that Runequest was being written and published by the guys who now do Glorantha. I thought it was some completely new edition so I didnt knew it was the Legend guys. See, I'm learning some things already about its history!

Okay so Legend's really easy to use I know this. I'm going to take my Pathfinder campaign and change it to Legend. The characters are only 3rd and 4th level so the change will be easy and instead of feats I'll give some of the guys common magic. I can see its a flexible system and I like world building so I'm keen to give all this a try.

I saw theres a Spider Gods Bride Legend version. We've played that with D&D already so its a shame because it might have been great with Legend. Is Mongoose doing any original campauign books or is it just redoing D&D stuff? I'd like some new stuff if I'm honest. I looked at Deus Voult but I'm not that interested in Medeval Europe so I'll take a pass on that.

Any good, cheap scenarios for Legend online I could use for my ex-Pathfinders?
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby Hopeless » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:11 pm

Well I ran a couple of pathfinder scenarios' working them into the plot about late last year to early this year.

I used the spells in the Legend book to convert the magical items and stuck to the low magic by making it only those that took spell casting professions could cast magic although later on the blacksmith character came into possession of a scroll with a spell that acted as a secret of his craft.

It really depends on what kind of campaign you want to run, but otherwise you should be fine I really don't need to say have fun since you sound like you're already on the ball there!
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby The Wolf » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:15 pm

Carew, there is indeed Spider God's Bride. I converted all 3 to Legend, welcome to the boards. It features revised encounters that fit with Legend, as well as Legend specific takes on Swords and Sorcery magic in the core Spider God's Bride book.

So it's slightly different to the D&D version.
"There are some things best left unsaid, many things best left unknown!"

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Carew
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby Carew » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:59 pm

Hi Wolf,

Yeah I get you'll have done some different stuff with encounters, but unless you've changed the plots then we won't get much new out of Spider God because we've played through that campaign. We had a blast though! Appreciate the words though and its good that a books author posts here and answers questions.

Hopeless, our Pathfinder campaign is set in a world me and a couple of buddies have been developing since 9th Grade. It was D&D3.5 to start and was a mash-up of Raymond Feist, Steve Erikson and Tolkien and it kind of grew in the playing. We're pretty slick with it now, and we stopped are old campaign when the characters got to too high a level and it stopped being fun. We love the world and so we started again with Pathfinder and now I've discovered Legend I can see it being a new and different kind of fun, because we always liked character vulnerability and Legend gives you that with the combat and how hit points NEVER get any higher.

You guys are making me feel really welcome. Thank you guys.
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby The Wolf » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:16 pm

Hey there, understood and no worries at all. You're very welcome :)

You should be able to find threads on a lot of the Legend work I've done for Mongoose here, all 3 Spider God's Bride books as well as Monsters of Legend 2 will have threads. There's a ton of information on various Legend subjects from the community too, some really great stuff.

There's also the Sheoloth Legend conversion thread.

Once again, welcome to the boards.
"There are some things best left unsaid, many things best left unknown!"

Current Project -- Legend: Sheoloth

Darren W. Pearce - Amazon Author Page

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Ultor
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby Ultor » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:46 am

You can get the campaign packs Pavis Rising and Dara Happa Stirs, which were written for the MRQ2 rules (the immediate predecessor of Legend) at DriveThru for a buck each

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/index.php ... rs_id=4057

They're set in Glorantha, which isn't everyone's cup of tea, but there are some really good scenarios in those campaigns that could be extracted into a more conventional campaign. For $2, what have you got to lose?
Still waiting for Games Workshop's contribution to Questworld

The Rune Under Water: an occasional Runequest blog http://runeunderwater.blogspot.com/
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby Ultor » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:50 am

I note they also still have Blood of Orlanth for sale, which will require a bit of conversion, as it was written for MRQ1, but there are some good bits in that too.
Still waiting for Games Workshop's contribution to Questworld

The Rune Under Water: an occasional Runequest blog http://runeunderwater.blogspot.com/
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby Prime_Evil » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:29 am

Welcome aboard!
Strega wrote:You'll be fine with Legend and the D100 system opens up a huge back catalogue of different options. Not only is all the Legend material available to use but you can use Deus Vult with little effort for a very different world and alse earlier material published by Chaosium and many other companies.

The mix and match options can give you incredible choice is settings and feel for a campaign. The basic, underlying, system goes back more than thirty years and covers everything so fantasy ala D&D. Swords and Sorcery ala Moorcock, Lieber and Ashton Smith, Planetary Romance ala Burroughs and many more are just a net search away.
I would emphasize this. The various d100 games are rules-light in comparison to current versions of D&D / Pathfinder and you should have no trouble combining elements that you like from different versions. Feel free to mix and match the bits that you like from each game!

You might also want to take a look at OpenQuest from D101 games if you want a version that's a bit more streamlined than Legend / RQ 6. Also take a look at the Renaissance system from Cakebread & Walton - both of these are d100 variants released under the Open Gaming License, so you can combine elements from them with Legend to make your own remix if you choose:

D101 Games
Renaissance System
carew wrote:We love the world and so we started again with Pathfinder and now I've discovered Legend I can see it being a new and different kind of fun, because we always liked character vulnerability and Legend gives you that with the combat and how hit points NEVER get any higher.
Since you are interested in adapting your Pathfinder setting to Legend, it's worth noting that designing combat encounters for Legend / RQ 6 requires a different approach to Pathfinder. Not only is the combat system more deadly, but also it has some subtle hidden features that reveal themselves during play. For example, in Legend, being outnumbered is a big deal due to the way that Combat Actions are spent. A group of weak opponents can bring down a tough adventurer quickly if they have a numerical advantage. In Pathfinder, a party of four 1st level characters will probably defeat a group of eight goblins. But in Legend, the same adventurers may be slaughtered because they run out of Combat Actions before the goblins do. Even if the adventurers each have three combat actions per round and the goblins each only have two CAs per round, the PCs will have a total of 12 CAs to spend per round and the goblins will have 16. This means that the goblins can make four attacks each round that the characters can't possibly defend against. Even if the goblins have low combat skills compared to the adventurers, if only one of these four attacks gets through the defenses of one of the adventurers there is a good chance that it will temporarily incapacitate that particular character - which causes the odds against the PCs to be even worse on the following round. This is realistic, but is surprising to people coming across from D&D or Pathfinder as they are used to running combats where characters are outnumbered 2:1 or worse. If you still want to do this, consider using the mook rules and handing out a few extra Hero Points. Remember that characters can spend a Hero Point to gain an extra Combat Action and should be encouraged to use this defensively rather than offensively.

On a similar note, climactic battles against a single big bad guy are rarely satisfying in Legend / RQ 6. The reason is exactly the same - the PCs will have more Combat Actions to spend each round than their opponent and will be able to quickly cut him down to size (no matter how tough he is). Stacking more armour on the bad guy can alleviate this issue slightly, but the weight of the additional armour can make this counter-productive. I find the best approach to building a climactic battle is to have a group of opponents who slightly outnumber the adventurers but whose skills are not quite at parity with those of the PCs. Often, I set the combat skills of the bad guys at roughly 2/3 of the PCs and the number of opponents at N+1 or N+2 (where N is the number of PCs).

Personally, I like to design adventures backwards and start with developing the climactic encounter first, while I'm still full of energy and enthusiasm. Satisfying endings are hard to pull off, but they help to provide structure to the adventure so it is always a good idea to nail them down as early as possible. Try working backwards from the climax to the opening scene wherever possible. This approach has the advantage that it is easy to scale the other encounters in the adventure relative to the climactic battle to ensure that they are neither too tough nor too weak. And it becomes trivial to ensure that the various paths through the adventure logically lead to the final confrontation without any need to railroad the characters in a specific direction. The dramatic flow of the adventure will be much tighter from the opening scene to the denouement, even if the adventure is largely freeform in nature. If the adventure flows backwards easily from the ending to the beginning, it's structure will feel natural to players who participate in it. This is just as true of sandbox adventures as it is of tightly-plotted story arcs.

Finally, I'd note that if you adapt a Pathfinder adventures across to Legend you may want to reduce the overall number of combat encounters. Because combat in Legend / RQ 6 can consequences beyond the loss of abstract hit points, it is risky to solve every problem using violence. Even if the adventurers are optimised for combat, the risk is that a random opponent will eventually get lucky and take them out with a major wound. I find that 2-3 combat encounters in a single adventure is enough - there is sufficient danger to keep things interesting, but the risk of an accidental TPK is reduced. I often like to have a simple combat encounter early in the adventure where the PCs face a minor threat in a way that allows them to show off their combat skills a bit with minimal risk - something like a bar-room brawl or back alley mugging can work well.

Also, Legend is a skill-based system rather than a level-based system and advancement is not tied to killing "monsters". Indeed, throughout all of its iterations RQ has emphasized that "monsters" are more than mere sword fodder - monsters are built using exactly the same rules that are used to create adventurers, which makes it harder to maintain the 'us vs. them' mentality common the D&D and related systems (and also means that most monster races are playable if you choose to allow that option). Keep in mind that RQ was one of the first RPGs to attempt a detailed 'realistic' treatment of a nonhuman species with the classic trollpak from 1982. This is a big difference between d100 games and D&D / Pathfinder where NPC races use a different set of rules to PC races.
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby Carew » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:20 pm

Thanks all for the great advice and tips! I have bought those glorantha PDFs for $1 nbecause as you say, what is there to lose!

I also saw two other books on that drive through site. A quests book and a monster island book. Will these work with Legend? Are they worth buying?

Prime Evil I think your advice on using Pathfinder and Legend is some of the best advice anyones given me in gaming circles and I will definitely take on board what you say. I think the advice about how you can get ganged up on in combat is really important because in Pathfinder with your feats, magic items and range of specializations its never much of a threat. I can see how running out of combat actions will be a killer because there key to the whole combat.

Can't wait to run this with our group. We start next week by making characters and I' told them we'll be making new ones, not converting, so we get used to the system.
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby Prime_Evil » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:09 pm

Carew wrote:Thanks all for the great advice and tips! I have bought those glorantha PDFs for $1 nbecause as you say, what is there to lose!

I also saw two other books on that drive through site. A quests book and a monster island book. Will these work with Legend? Are they worth buying?
These are both recent releases for RQ 6. The Book of Quests contains seven short adventures that form a loosely connected sequence. They are set in a generic frontier region that you can drop into any campaign. Alternatively, guidelines for adapting the adventures to your own world are provided.

By contrast, Monster Island is a sandbox mini-campaign setting involving an isolated tropical island filled with prehistoric monsters and lost civilisations. Think of pulp action stories such as King Kong, the Lost World, the Land that Time Forgot, and pretty much everything that Edgar Rice Burroughs and A. Merritt ever wrote. Monster Island is an isolated place that can be dropped into pretty any campaign setting without much effort. It is self-contained, so if you want a standalone setting for your players to explore while they are getting familiar with the game system, its not a bad choice. Simply have them shipwrecked on the mysterious island with no idea where they are and what they need to do to survive. The book is a sandbox-style setting, so there's no structured plot in the traditional sense - it lends itself to a play style centred upon exploration. If you like dinosaurs and pulp action, this book is for you!

Both volumes are written for the RQ 6 rule system but are largely compatible with Legend - some of the skill names are different and there are some changes to the magic system. But both are of high quality and well worth the effort, although for my own personal taste Monster Island is the better book.
Carew wrote:Prime Evil I think your advice on using Pathfinder and Legend is some of the best advice anyones given me in gaming circles and I will definitely take on board what you say. I think the advice about how you can get ganged up on in combat is really important because in Pathfinder with your feats, magic items and range of specializations its never much of a threat. I can see how running out of combat actions will be a killer because there key to the whole combat.
Keep in mind that combat in Pathfinder is largely a matter of attrition - the aim is to make your opponents run out of hit points before you do. But in Legend / RQ 6, characters are likely to lose an arm or a leg well before they run out of hit points. This is realistic, but can be jarring for newcomers who don't expect it. It's not uncommon for combatants to be incapacitated but still alive at the end of a battle, so adjust your expectations accordingly.

A couple of additional notes that may be useful:
  • The traditional D&D approach to dungeon design doesn't work well in Legend / RQ 6. Don't string together a sequence of rooms filled with monsters and expect the characters to survive. Sooner or later the bad guys will get lucky and slaughter the party - especially if they make an effort coordinate their response to intruders. Don't focus on the dungeon environment as a sequence of combat encounters that characters need to win in order to progress. Instead, treat the dungeon as a mysterious place that characters need to explore. Focus on the exploration angle rather than the combat angle. Use empty rooms as punctuation between encounters. Try to think up two or three skill rolls that characters could make in each location. Make sure that there are multiple paths through the environment - many Pathfinder adventures use a subtle form of railroading where there is only one meaningful path to the objective of the adventure. By contrast, if you look at early dungeons there were often multiple paths that adventurers could traverse through the dungeon, each of which leads to an interesting location.
  • Use encounters with supernatural or mythical monsters sparingly. Supernatural creatures are a lot more dangerous in Legend / RQ 6 than they are in Pathfinder. A single encounter with a mythical "monster" is enough excitement for an entire game session. Most encounters should involve other humans or humanoids (e.g. orcs, elves, dwarves, etc). In general, true monsters tend to be rarer in Legend / RQ 6 than in D&D derivatives such as Pathfinder.
  • Legend is a skill-based system, so encourage characters to make skill rolls often. Don't go overboard, but look for opportunities to ask for skill rolls where success or failure have meaningful consequences. Don't forget to modify skill rolls for the difficulty of the task - make some rolls easy and some more difficult. Be aware that players will tend to max out frequently-used skills such as Perception and Stealth, so don't be afraid to make rolls against them a bit more difficult. Remember that only one member of the group needs to make a Perception or Insight roll for everyone to learn what they have found. At the same time, don't slow the game down with small modifiers - if you are going to apply modifiers, think in terms of +/-20% rather than +/-5%. Try to keep the maths as simple as possible at the game table by using multiples of 10% wherever possible.
  • Opposed rolls are your friend. Use them wherever possible. Ask characters to make a Stealth roll against the Perception of the enemy sentries. Ask them to roll Disguise roll against the Insight of opponents. Have them use Influence against the Persistence of NPCs.
  • Use natural hazards as an alternative to combat encounters. Encourage adventurers to regularly use skills such as Athletics, Acrobatics, Brawn, Swim, and Survival. Make them climb down sheer cliffs, cross subterranean rivers, lift heavy stone slabs, cross barren deserts, etc. Don't forget the rules for poison and disease - exposure to deadly fungal spores or similar hazards can serve as an effective alternative to combat encounters.
  • Don't forget to use traps! Deathtraps are awesome and give you an opportunity to use multiple skills - first characters need to find the trap (Perception) and then either avoid it (Athletics or Acrobatics) or disarm it (Mechanisms). If the trap uses poison needles or something similar, you can also make the characters use Resilience to resist the effects. Traps allow you to threaten PCs with danger without the level of arbitrary risk associated with the combat system. The effects of a trap tend to be more predictable than the outcome of combat against competent opponents.
  • Don't leave treasure hoards sitting out in the open. Make characters work for rewards. Most sentient creatures are smart enough to protect their valuables either by storing them in a secure location (e.g. locked chest) or hiding them (e.g. sack of loot buried under a loose flagstone or in a water-tight container at the bottom of a barrel). Make characters use skills such as Perception and Mechanisms to locate and gain access to treasure. Sometimes valuable items won't be obvious - occasionally make characters use the Evaluate skill to recognise the true value of items discovered. For example, maybe they find an old cup that appears to be mere pewter but is actually badly tarnished silver.
Last edited by Prime_Evil on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
alex_greene
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby alex_greene » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:41 pm

Hi.

You've arrived here at a very exciting time. Legend is still just finding its feet, two years on from its launch, but it's established a strong following and it is extremely useful as a setting-neutral game system. I'm a huge fan of the system and I've written some fan stuff for the game already.
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Carew
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby Carew » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:45 am

Wow! Alex and Prime Evil! Thank you for your encouragment and great advice. I'm glad I asked my questions here because you guys are helpful and welcoming.

I guess for now I'll leave the Quests and Monster books alone because we have our own world and we have some advnetures planned for that first, but thanks for the information.
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby @stroval » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:02 pm

Hi and welcome. As another newbie to the system let me just say that you are indeed in good hands with the folks here.
Only thing I can add is if you can get the Age of Treason books ( Age of Treason: The Iron Simulacrum and Age of Treason: The Iron Companion) not only is their latest version a Legend one, but this is a full setting, ripe with rules and ideas to mine as well as at least seven adventures and hooks for many more.


Its a bit Arabic, early Byzantine/Roman in most of its influences but that can change if it doesn't fit your world. Really well done books.


Last but not least: Alex Greene's 'The Blood Path' is an awesome mini campaign and more my cup of tea for my world as I view the Orcs in exactly the same light(saved me the trouble of translating most of my house rules from 3.5)

Happy Gaming!
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby auyl » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:50 pm

If you're looking for some 3.5/Pathfinder related material to use in Legend be sure to check out Inhabitants of the Dark: Savage Drow by my company Solace Games on DTRPG. It's a drow book set in the Legend sytem and I think you may really enjoy it having your background.
Check out Solace Games website here!
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby Carew » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:48 pm

thanks auyl and please don't take this personally but I can't stand the frackin' drow! :) Way way too overused as a race they lost there original mystique when the whole dark elf schtick became popular in the early 90s. They made good bad guys for every now and then, but these days they really grate on me. I'm sure your books really good but I'll pass on that for now!
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby The Wolf » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:23 pm

I suggest you steer clear of Mongoose's next big Legend release line then ;)
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Carew
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby Carew » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:57 pm

The Wolf wrote:I suggest you steer clear of Mongoose's next big Legend release line then ;)
If its dark elf/drow related then I guess I'll have to!! Is it new material or converted D&D material? I dunno, I think the drow just got overused and over thought, like comedy redneck orcs did, with too many attempts to depict them as cool and misunderstood amoral types. It was all a bit Vampire the Masquerade you know? Tragic emo elves with misunderstood BDSM tendencies. Good luck with the book though.
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Re: can I say hi here?

Postby The Wolf » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:27 pm

I was asked to convert Sheoloth for Matt/Mongoose into Legend, so it's the beginning of the dark elves portrayal in Legend. Whilst I kept a lot of the city the same, I decided that I'd rework the Dark Mother (see the appropriate thread in the forums) for Sheoloth and add a twist here and there for the dark elves. Not using the term drow, since that's tied into the d20 depiction.
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