Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Discover the Legend RPG, Mongoose's fantasy game.
auyl
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby auyl » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:16 am

I'm excited for this for the new style of magic it introduces and also for the new writing possibilities it'll open up.

Can't wait!
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby msprange » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:08 pm

Being laid out right now, expect to see it later this week!
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby DamonJynx » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:29 pm

Awesome!
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby Prime_Evil » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:47 pm

Very nice. It's been a while since the last core release for Legend. Does this mean that there is more on the horizon? 8)
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby DamonJynx » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:51 am

Well...I hope so. I've just started on a Cities of Legend title. Hopefully, all things going well, I can turn that around in a month or two. Unfortunately, unlike Darren, I have a boss who expects me to do stuff for him for at least 8-9 hours per day-why, I have no idea, possibly something to do with the money he pays me. And then I have some other personal things I'm committed to (or is that, I should be committed for?), so I don't have as much spare time as I'd like to work on these projects.

That being said, the fact that this book is in layout without Matt sending it back for changes indicates the quality of my work to be at the very least, acceptable. As long as I maintain the same standard throughout whatever projects Matt sends my way, I'll be working on the Legend line along with Darren. I'm not quick but I'll get there in the end, so expect more from me.
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby Prime_Evil » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:00 am

Good news! Also, keep in mind that even if there are problems with the book at the time of release, one advantage of the PDF format is that it is usually trivial to update the text as errata are submitted...
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby msprange » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:37 am

Prime_Evil wrote:Good news! Also, keep in mind that even if there are problems with the book at the time of release, one advantage of the PDF format is that it is usually trivial to update the text as errata are submitted...
Indeed - however, we were very, very impressed with the level of DamonJynx's work on this book, which made it a breeze to go through! It is in layout now and should appear before the end of the week!
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby alex_greene » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:39 pm

Sounds as if he learned some valuable lessons from The Blood Path, and run with the ball from there.
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby DamonJynx » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:31 pm

alex_greene wrote:Sounds as if he learned some valuable lessons from The Blood Path, and run with the ball from there.
Indeed I did my friend. You know I like to do these things to the best of my ability. I wouldn't put something out there (regardless of role) that I wasn't personally happy with. I'm not a 'near enough is good enough' type of guy.
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby Bifford » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:34 pm

I long ago unofficially adopted Legend on the RPGGeek website, and I've now officially signed up to let the news crew know about any future Legend news. Last weeks news-round-up on the Geek included the Sheoloth release and future releases info, and i've just sent word about this lovely news to them.

So if Matt or any of you other lovely people ever want to get some news to the Geek team please PM or post to me the info!

Sam / Bifford
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby DamonJynx » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:43 pm

msprange wrote:Indeed - however, we were very, very impressed with the level of DamonJynx's work on this book, which made it a breeze to go through! It is in layout now and should appear before the end of the week!
Thanks Matt :D
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby DamonJynx » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:32 am

According to the release schedule, the actual title will be: Arcania of Legend: Elementalism. Which is a more appropriate title as the book includes discussion on more than just the 4 elements of Western/Greek philosophy.
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby Lord High Munchkin » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:52 am

Some Greek systems had five elements... Aristotle for example.
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby Prime_Evil » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:25 pm

The book not only covers the four elements of RPG tradition, but also alternate schemes such as the Aristotlean conception of the elements, the Chinese (Taoist) conception of the elements and even the Aztec conception of the elements.

I've only skimmed through the book so far, but a couple of things jump out at me...

Firstly, it contains a generic version of the rules for summoning and binding elementals from the Elric RPG and releases them as OGC. This was a pleasant surprise!

If you are looking at building our own Swords and Sorcery campaign where summoned elemental entities are more common than fireballs and similar "heavy artillery" spells, this book should contain plenty of material for you. The section on the Elemental Courts blends concepts derived from Mooorcock with concepts derived from D&D to surprisingly good effect.

The Elemental Lore chapter is truly excellent, but probably should have been near the front of the book to provide a conceptual overview of the material covered by the book.

So far, the only issue that has jumped out at me is the difference in tone between the material adapted from older d20 source material and the new material written for this book - one shows a strong D&D influence while the other draws more upon the Runequest / Stormbringer / BRP tradition. However, this is a relatively minor complaint in the scheme of things

Hopefully we'll see more from Jim soon!
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby DamonJynx » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:06 am

Prime_Evil wrote:The book not only covers the four elements of RPG tradition, but also alternate schemes such as the Aristotlean conception of the elements, the Chinese (Taoist) conception of the elements and even the Aztec conception of the elements.

I've only skimmed through the book so far, but a couple of things jump out at me...

Firstly, it contains a generic version of the rules for summoning and binding elementals from the Elric RPG and releases them as OGC. This was a pleasant surprise!

If you are looking at building our own Swords and Sorcery campaign where summoned elemental entities are more common than fireballs and similar "heavy artillery" spells, this book should contain plenty of material for you. The section on the Elemental Courts blends concepts derived from Mooorcock with concepts derived from D&D to surprisingly good effect.

The Elemental Lore chapter is truly excellent, but probably should have been near the front of the book to provide a conceptual overview of the material covered by the book.

So far, the only issue that has jumped out at me is the difference in tone between the material adapted from older d20 source material and the new material written for this book - one shows a strong D&D influence while the other draws more upon the Runequest / Stormbringer / BRP tradition. However, this is a relatively minor complaint in the scheme of things

Hopefully we'll see more from Jim soon!
Thanks Prime_Evil.

I can only take so much credit though. The material from the original authors was excellent. The hardest part for me was in translating/converting the D20 mechanics to work with Legend. At the time of writing my intent wasn't to create an OGL version of the summoning & binding rules found in the Elric books but now that you mention it, it's pretty obvious I was highly influenced by them.
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby Prime_Evil » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:52 am

DamonJynx wrote:At the time of writing my intent wasn't to create an OGL version of the summoning & binding rules found in the Elric books but now that you mention it, it's pretty obvious I was highly influenced by them.
It's not a bad thing by any means - the new version is close enough to the Elric rules to be familiar, but different enough to be interesting in its own right. For my own games, I'm interesting in integrating them with the summoning rules already released in Blood Magic to create a definitive summoning system...
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby alex_greene » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:54 pm

When I heard that it was now available, I got it downloaded as soon as I could.
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby Harshlax » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:13 am

I've just downloaded the book and am skimming through it now. Page 14 and 16 show the cycle of elements and talk about how an Elementalist can never use his opposing element, and the text uses the example of a Fire Elementalist who can never learn water magics. All fair enough, except the picture of the cycle doesn't have water opposing fire, it is adjacent. In the image, Earth opposes Fire. Indeed, instead of the traditional Fire vs Water, Air vs Earth the model shows Fire vs Earth and Air vs Water.

Which is correct, the text example, or the image?

Some other questions - You said previously you included element specific wrack spells. I can see them for Fire and Air, the easy ones to imagine. earth is listed as teaching Wrack, but with no energy form associated, and where is Water's?
Why offer Form/Set to only earth and Water? Form/Set (fire) and Form/Set (air) would be very effective spells.
Where's the Desiccate spell?

Reviewing the elemental Mastery skill uses, it appears that almost all the effects described can be done with pre-existing spells, mainly uses of Fly or animate and Form/Set. The ability to Create elements for use with other spells is very handy, and an ability to transform into another element or adopt some of its characteristics, for purposes of travel, is also neat. However Air Propulsion is such a good weapon, denying its targets a resist roll, I would ban it immediately. Pick your targets, cast the skill, and lift them up to your maximum height before cutting off the ability and allowing them to fall to Earth. With a skill of 41-50% that would inflict 3d6 damage on 3 random locations on each target, with no opportunity to resist!

The book is definitely a neat idea, but may I suggest if updating it, you consider and include discussions of the tactical uses of all 4 element's Form/Set and Animate spells, along with an exploration of how different energies and concepts could be used to apply Wrack to all of the elements?
Last edited by Harshlax on Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby The Wolf » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:36 am

Nice work Jim, and I too have numerous other projects I have to juggle - which is why Cults of Sheoloth - the Dark Mother, is somewhat slower than my other releases.

I work for several masters in the RPG field ;)
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Re: Arcania of Legend: The Four Elemental Ways

Postby DamonJynx » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:24 am

Harshlax wrote:I've just downloaded the book and am skimming through it now. Page 14 and 16 show the cycle of elements and talk about how an Elementalist can never use his opposing element, and the text uses the example of a Fire Elementalist who can never learn water magics. All fair enough, except the picture of the cycle doesn't have water opposing fire, it is adjacent. In the image, Earth opposes Fire. Indeed, instead of the traditional Fire vs Water, Air vs Earth the model shows Fire vs Earth and Air vs Water.

Which is correct, the text example, or the image?

Some other questions - You said previously you included element specific wrack spells. I can see them for Fire and Air, the easy ones to imagine. earth is listed as teaching Wrack, but with no energy form associated, and where is Water's?
Why offer Form/Set to only earth and Water? Form/Set (fire) and Form/Set (air) would be very effective spells.
Where's the Desiccate spell?

Reviewing the elemental Mastery skill uses, it appears that almost all the effects described can be done with pre-existing spells, mainly uses of Fly or animate and Form/Set. The ability to Create elements for use with other spells is very handy, and an ability to transform into another element or adopt some of its characteristics, for purposes of travel, is also neat. However Air Propulsion is such a good weapon, denying its targets a resist roll, I would ban it immediately. Pick your targets, cast the skill, and lift them up to your maximum height before cutting off the ability and allowing them to fall to Earth. With a skill of 41-50% that would inflict 3d6 damage on 3 random locations on each target, with no opportunity to resist!

The book is definitely a neat idea, but may I suggest if updating it, you consider and include discussions of the tactical uses of all 4 element's Form/Set and Animate spells, along with an exploration of how different energies and concepts could be used to apply Wrack to all of the elements?
Regarding opposing elements, the text is correct. The omission of Dessicate is an error on my part, it was supposed to be the Water version of Wrack. If an update is done, I'll keep your comments in mind. You raise some good points.
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