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Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:59 pm
by Hopeless
Got wondering about this after buying a copy since I listened to a podcast review which gave me quite an odd idea.

What if... Snow White was the villain?

Her mother dies in childbirth and taking a leaf from Dragon Age she actually possesses the body of her newborn child and waits to grow up planning to frame her new stepmother for the murder of her "father" and assuming the throne aided by some of her "mother's" former servants a group of dwarves who have been bedeviling the local forest.

One of their many vicitims is the Huntsman who wife and child was killed unaware he is being prepared to serve as the supposed killer of Snow White's father and blamed for his family's death all supposedly for the favour of the "true" villainess of the piece, Snow White's stepmother...

What do you think?

Too much or should I rename Snow White in particular?

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:44 pm
by Fonso
It remembers me "The lesser evil", one short story included in "The Last Wish", the first book of Geralt of Rivia from Andrzej Sapkowski.

Snow White is a princess eager of revenge against the wizard who ruined its life.
A tragic story, like all of Geralt.

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:52 pm
by superc0ntra
Brilliant! But I'd be careful of the copyright issues of the lady herself if you plan to release it, even if not commercially.

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:15 pm
by Prime_Evil
Check out the award-winning story "Red as Blood" by Tanith Lee that presents Snow White as the villain.

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:06 am
by superc0ntra
Or White as Snow by the same author. The story from Red as Blood expanded to a whole novel

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:47 pm
by soltakss
Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty and many more heroines/heroes from fairy tales probably cannot be copyrighted and probably cannot be trademarked, as they have been in the public domain for hundreds of years.

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:22 pm
by tarkhan bey
I have a book called 'Grimm'. I'm fairly certain that it's still in print and it's an rpg based on similar premises. I have never actually played it but it makes a fantastic read. Very dark and spooky.

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:40 pm
by SnowDog
Funnily enough I have also thought about it along the same lines. Obviously I have not taken the plot so far or rather thought of it so deeply but reversed roles were the idea.

I have read the "Last Wish" and maybe it was brewing somewhere in the subconscious...

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:39 am
by Prime_Evil
soltakss wrote:Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty and many more heroines/heroes from fairy tales probably cannot be copyrighted and probably cannot be trademarked, as they have been in the public domain for hundreds of years.
But specific performances or re-tellings of those stories can be copyrighted. Although these characters are technically in the public domain, the Walt Disney Corporation has trademarked terms such as 'Snow White', 'Cinderella', 'Sleeping Beauty', etc in the European Union. For example, here are a few of relevant trademarks - note that they are extremely broad and explicitly cover any derivative works 'written on paper or bookbinding materials' that incorporate characters with these names:

Snow White (5235502) 02.08.2006

Cinderella (5238118) 03.08.2006

Sleeping Beauty (5235205) 02.08.2006

Also, the Disney Corporation owns the term 'Snow White' as both a trade mark and service mark in the US, as shown in the following application to the US patent and trademark office:

http://tarr.uspto.gov/tarr?regser=seria ... est+Status

Note that the term of the trademark was extended on Nov. 20, 2012 and covers all live and recorded movie, television, radio, stage, computer, Internet, news, and photographic entertainment uses. So you can't use the term "Snow White" in the US without licensing it from Disney. They've also taken out US trademarks on Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty too...

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:17 pm
by soltakss
That just proves:
1. I know nothing
2. Trademark law is so messed up when something that has been public domain for centuries and has spawned a host of stories, pantomimes and other things can be trademaerked to effectively throttle those.

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:27 pm
by superc0ntra

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:35 pm
by Prime_Evil
On the bright side, the Disney Corporation has been reluctant to sue folks who breach these trademarks because they are shaky from a legal perspective and they don't want to risk having them invalidated. However, they have been known to threaten to sue people who make use of these characters in ways that they don't approve. And because being sued by Disney is enough to bankrupt most individuals and small companies, this has limited the scope for creative re-use of the public domain elements. (The producers of Snow White and the Huntsman had private talks with Disney before the project got the green light from Universal).

There has been criticism of the way that Disney appropriates figures from public domain works and turns them into trademarked figures, but nobody has been game to take them on through the court system in either Europe or America.

However, the Disney corporation isn't stupid and knows that there would be a public backlash if they exercise their trademarks over public domain figures in a draconian manner, so they tend to turn a blind eye to most uses of material derived from the public domain works - provided that it doesn't imitate their interpretation too closely and doesn't make too much money...

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:49 pm
by rust
Prime_Evil wrote: And because being sued by Disney is enough to bankrupt most individuals and small companies, this has limited the scope for creative re-use of the public domain elements.
This depends on the specific state and its legal system, in most European
states Disney had no chance to go to court with its questionable trademarks
and would cause only negligible costs to the person who ignores it. The rea-
son that Disney's trademarks still exist there is simply that Snow White, Cin-
derella and thelike are known by other names in these states, and therefore
there were few - if any - potential conflicts. If Disney attempted to trademark
for example Schneewittchen (the original German name) its lawyers would be
laughed out of the court.

Re: Snow White and the Huntsman Legend Style!

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:15 am
by Hopeless
So lets assume that Snow White's mother was the actual witch and rather than die in childbirth she possessed her daughter taking pains to alter her appearance to match her idea of physical beauty.

Along comes say a rival in her future stepmother who charms her would be suitor but is unaware exactly what her new stepdaughter is...

Hmm, maybe she thinks with Snow White's mother dead she can acquire her library and power possibly by having the Huntsman hunt down and capture the dwarves who in this instance aren't sure Snow White is their mistress reborn.

So the new queen uses the magic mirror but because it belonged to Snow White's mother it resists her commands and she eventually realises that unless she can sever Snow White's command over her mother's artefacts she will need to arrange her death.

So Snow White is led out by the Huntsman and rather than he being ordered to kill her the dwarves take the opportunity to kidnap her which the neq Queen was hoping for since it would allow her to turn the people against them and use the King's army to hunt them down since up to this point the Huntsman has been stymied as there are 7 dwarves and trying to take all of them on is seriously insane...

Now the dwarves confirm Snow White is their former mistress and now they turn the people against the Queen by letting her claim they thwarted an assassination effort on the new Queen's part.

Snow White uses magic to kill the King and forces the Huntsman to flee when she dominates a group of the soldiers' sent to help him hunt down the dwarves...

Maybe this is when the PCs should be introduced what do you think?