How do you make elementals?

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How do you make elementals?

Postby ikaden » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:38 pm

My friend just gave me his legend books, and i am trying to familiarize myself with the rules. But I am running into the issue with the description of the summon elemental spell on page 181. There is no information about stats of any kind. And there is no information about them in the monsters of legend. The spirit magic module approaches the subject but just references the Process listed in the core book... which there is none. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby alex_greene » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:28 am

A point which has been established in previous threads, and bears mentioning to day because it still hasn't yet been satisfactorily addressed.

Elementals' SIZ is measured in cubic metres - each Magnitude of the Divine spells can summon or dismiss 1 cubic metre of the substance. That is, incidentally, how much of the substrate you need to conjure up the Elemental; 4 cu. m of water to summon up a 4 cu. m elemental, say.

They have INT, CHA and POW, as do elemental spirits - 1 cu. m elemental has starting POW 1d6+6, and each further 1 cu. m adds +6 to POW.

It doesn't have rules for determining INT and CHA, or stat out abilities.

The Spirit Magic supplement describes elemental spirits, rather than simple elementals - elemental spirits can be summoned into a shaman and possess his body, allowing him to channel the element through him.

And that looks like it from what I can tell, without going into the Summon rules in Arcania of Legend: Blood Magic.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby ikaden » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:28 am

Thank you for the further clarification. Though any idea why there hasn't been a good official response to the missing information?

Also doesn't that make the only way to combat them magical.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby Olaus Petrus » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:59 am

There were elemental stats in MRQII which is predecessor Legend. However when Legend version was written they removed creatures chapter from the book, so unfortunately currently none of the Legend books include elemental stats. I'm hoping that upcoming Monsters of Legend II book might include those stats, but that's just wishful thinking.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby strega » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:05 am

When I needed one for a scenario I just pulled one from MRQI's Monsters book and used that. Works perfectly.

Quick check and, yes, the Elementals are in the MRQI Monsters SRD. You'll find it over on the Basic Role Playing site.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby The Wolf » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:12 am

I would like to do a few different takes on elementals for the MoL II book. From the huge conflageration fire-elementals to something a little more humanoid shaped. It really does depend on what's there for me to convert from d20>Legend though.

Elementals are also pretty much part of Swords and Sorcery - yet only one turns up in Spider God's Bride if my memory of a particular adventure is correct.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby strega » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:42 am

If you do add monsters to a MoL II make sure that they match the ones in the MRQI SRD and earlier iterations where it's legal to do so. It makes it much easier to use material from other BRP material for example if the entities included in those works are a match for something published for Legend.

If you happen to be short a few pages then the criteria you used to convert the creatures form SGB might prove to be a useful addendum.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby The Wolf » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:50 am

I pretty much have to take the d20 monsters and convert direct to Legend, Strega. There's art and so on for those already sorted. I've yet to look deeply in there though and find elementals. Expect an update on MoL II sometime after I finish up on SGB 2 ;)

That'll be once I'm done fixing SGB 1 of course. Not long to go on that book now though. I added a 'different' take on a fire elemental for SGB and the creature's magical grimoire (no reason why it can't have one) is written on its very skin. This isn't a typical fire elemental though.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby warlock1971 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:56 am

The Wolf wrote:I pretty much have to take the d20 monsters and convert direct to Legend, Strega. There's art and so on for those already sorted. I've yet to look deeply in there though and find elementals. Expect an update on MoL II sometime after I finish up on SGB 2 ;)

That'll be once I'm done fixing SGB 1 of course. Not long to go on that book now though. I added a 'different' take on a fire elemental for SGB and the creature's magical grimoire (no reason why it can't have one) is written on its very skin. This isn't a typical fire elemental though.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby The Wolf » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:11 am

You saw it in the SGB thread then?
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby alex_greene » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:20 am

I have been thinking about this, and it came to me that elementals could have a kind of an ecology, sort of like terrestrial creatures and humans.

So at the bottom end, you have the fixed-INT elementals, just INT and POW, no CHA, and intelligence the equivalent of cats, dogs, lions or elephants. And the temperaments of the same - trackers, pouncers, even trappers like spiders (a ferocious trapper earth elemental could behave like a colossal antlion and lay a pit trap, waiting patiently for an enemy to walk overhead and then just liquefy the ground beneath their feet, turning what looked like solid ground into instant quicksand ...).

But the size of the creature is always determined by the amount of element conjured - a physically large elemental with a low fixed-INT would be an elemental beast of burden, and could range in size and capabilities from the equivalent of pony size to elephant size easily, depending on the conjurer's needs and the amount of material available for the summoning.

And then you have the variable-INT elementals. These are the ones whose INT is, like the sentient monsters, determined with a die roll. They have INT, POW and CHA, and their size (and POW) is determined by the amount of material available for the summoning.

Dull-witted ones (INT and CHA in the 1d6+6 range) would probably be servile, fawning things with little initiative; the ones with more moderate intelligence (INT and CHA in the 2d6+6 range, comparable to player characters) would have more arcane knowledge and even be willing to trade, but they would have their own agendas; and the most powerful and subtle ones (INT and CHA in the 3d6+6 range) would tend to seek to put their summoners in their thrall, suborning their summoners' agendas and replacing them with their own.

From what I read of elemental spirits, of the type summoned by shamans rather than the pure elementals summoned by sorcerers and the like, some elemental spirits' properties leach out through their binding objects - I immediately thought of summoning fire elemental spirits, then stuffing them inside palm-sized binding enchantments made of ceramic and metal. Instant permanent hand warmers. Just don't break them anywhere near stockpiles of inflammable fuel.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby The Wolf » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:23 am

Alex :) I love your mind it is as twisted as my own. Imagine a whole city where shamans have imprisoned fire elementals into various objects, like the imprisoned elementals of Eberron. That would be hell on your city flammables if they ever got loose!

If you wanted to cause problems for their government, you could have protestors demanding the release of bound elementals.

Then there are the radicals who free them and manage to burn down whole cities by accident!
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby alex_greene » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:35 am

The Wolf wrote:Then there are the radicals who free them and manage to burn down whole cities by accident!
Oh, they don't necessarily have to be fire elementals they accidentally release ...

- entire sections of cities levelled by liquefied ground or looking as if earthquakes have hit them;

- low-level sections flooded out as their plumbing all backs up all at once;

- a part of the city that looks like it's under a permanent storm cloud, lightning snapping at everything moving;

- streets of shattered buildings (particularly parks full of parked caravans and mobile homes for some reason) blasted into little flinders by small tornadoes packing the punch of F5 monsters, roaming around randomly out of control leaving trails of destruction like an invasion of cartoon Tasmanian Devils ...
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby The Wolf » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:47 am

Yeah. I was just using fire as an example (since it was what I was working with yesterday). This is one reason I love Legend as say compared to some d20 products, there's so much scope for just pure invention and mayhem.

I am now imagining a whole city sunk to the bottom of a sea. Only the sea is actually thousands and thousands of released (and angry) water elementals.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby alex_greene » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:10 am

Everyone with an interest in conjuring spirits and elementals, try to avoid going down the Pokemon road in your adventures - "Earth Elemental! I CHOOSE YOU!"
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby The Wolf » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:16 am

Well, thanks. I now have orange juice in my keyboard :)
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby Olaus Petrus » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:43 am

In my opinion it doesn't matter much if elemental's intelligence is fixed or not. And making deals with them might be more difficult than people think at first. I see elementals as pure essence of fire, air, earth and water, like ideas from Plato's allegory of cave. These ideas do occasionally manifest to the world as storms, great fires etc. Because elementals are pure essence of the nature the way they think is often incomprehensible to humans and even if players find a way to negotiate with a living tornado, what can they offer to it? What does the wind want and what humans can offer to it in exchange that it goes to somewhere else and doesn't destroy human settlements which are on it's intended path? Most of the time elementals probably don't pay much attention to mortals.

Another interpretation I have is that elementals are already here. Small pond might be a small water elemental, while ocean might be a godlike creature. But most of the time people just don't realize that everything is alive. I've been thinking of using this type of animistic living world setting in some future adventure.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby Hopeless » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:51 pm

The Wolf wrote:Yeah. I was just using fire as an example (since it was what I was working with yesterday). This is one reason I love Legend as say compared to some d20 products, there's so much scope for just pure invention and mayhem.

I am now imagining a whole city sunk to the bottom of a sea. Only the sea is actually thousands and thousands of released (and angry) water elementals.
Oh can I nab that? :shock:
It explains something I've been pondering over since running a Legend game in a postapocalyptic setting and that actually would make things even more interesting! :twisted:

I ran a game where the players ended up gaining a new spell that effectively allowed them to summon a familiar that has a specific element attuned to them so one has a literal hellhound but rather than limit them after they all manged to bond to the fire rune their familiars' changed since all bar one of them had a familiar attuned to a different element.

So there was a steam horse (Water-Fire), a Lava Wolf (Earth-Fire) and a Phoenix (Air-Fire Hawk) came up with that idea via a scenario downloaded from drive-thru rpg.

Used the stats for the animals from the Monsters of Legend book but allowed them to roll them if they wanted with a couple of modifiers using that scenario I mentioned as a guide.

Might have to revisit that at some point! :wink:
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby alex_greene » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:58 pm

Something else you can nick: stuffing a high POW fire elemental (usually requiring a large body of fire) into a very small flame - ending up with an arc flame elemental, small (a few inches long) but most incredibly intense, a blue arc of fire capable of melting steel.

And if you ignite the fire with magnesium, the little flame elemental could even be capable of burning underwater and resisting the dousing effects of its elemental nemesis.
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Re: How do you make elementals?

Postby The Wolf » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:13 pm

Hopeless wrote:Oh can I nab that? :shock:
It explains something I've been pondering over since running a Legend game in a postapocalyptic setting and that actually would make things even more interesting! :twisted:
Yeah, course you can :) sounds fun!
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