Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby The Wolf » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:49 am

I could call it Song of the Beast Gods, which of course is the proper name. I just think SGB 2 is quicker to type :)

In all seriousness though, converting from d20 to Legend is a tricky process because you have no levels in Legend compared to the d20 (Pathfinder in this case iirc) variant. Then you have a bunch of feats and squiggly bits which absolutely have no real allegory in Legend either. So what I did with the NPCs of SGB is to look at what kind of NPC they were, in the case of Call from the Abyss, it was packed with a bunch of sailors.

So it made sense that they'd have nautical skills and be able to sing, dance and so on. After I used your methods of stat conversion I found the numbers certainly didn't match up on the OLD SGB NPCs...so everything had to be re-written/re-done from scratch on those.

I tried to give the NPCs numbers which matched the d20 counterparts, only I think the Legend ones may be a bit stronger. The main thing you can take from the new SGB is that all the NPCs will have their correct stats as far as I could work them out, and some interesting Combat Styles which is something I learned about recently - made the NPCs more themed than anything.

I wouldn't say I found too many pitfalls in Legend conversion though, for the most part it went smoothly enough with the hiccups coming from the missing things from the previous NPCs. Mostly this was down to resistance based skills in their lists. There were a couple of times I nearly missed those physically on the second copy of the NPC.

I think I've learned from Legend, quite a lot about how the numbers look and what makes a pretty reasonable d20 to Legend conversion of an NPC along the way. I've become faster at estimating certain things and developed a taste for Combat Styles that read: Night's Dark Master (2-H Sword, Quarterstaff, Kukri): 70% rather than a shopping list of swords and so on.

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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby warlock1971 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:24 am

Prime_Evil wrote:Instead of "Spider God's Bride 2", why not call it "Spawn of the Spider God" or something similarly cheesy :lol:

Also, would you consider writing up something general about your experiences converting from d20 to Legend - I'm curious to see how your methods have evolved and what pitfalls you have discovered along the way.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby Prime_Evil » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:18 am

I'm glad that you're getting to do the conversion of Song of the Beast Gods. Hopefully Mongoose will keep the same look and feel for this product that they used for SGB - despite the issues with the content, the layout, graphic design, and maps were excellent.

But I still want to see Spawn of the Spider God as an adventure - just imagine what kind of awesome things would need to be in it just to justify that title. ;)

My experience with converting characters from d20 to Legend seems to match your own - it's a good idea to start out with a rough conversion based upon a mechanical conversion, but this can lead to some strange results that you often need to adjust by hand. It does tend to be more of an art than a science in the end.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby DamonJynx » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:27 pm

Prime_Evil wrote: It does tend to be more of an art than a science in the end.
I think that's a truism that applies equally to creating NPC's from scratch as it does converting them from one system to another. Once you get past the basic mechanics...well it's all about...feel, atmosphere and ultimately, the needs of the story/adventure. The trick is to not end up with 'vanilla' NPC's.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby The Wolf » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:05 am

Prime_Evil wrote:I'm glad that you're getting to do the conversion of Song of the Beast Gods. Hopefully Mongoose will keep the same look and feel for this product that they used for SGB - despite the issues with the content, the layout, graphic design, and maps were excellent.

But I still want to see Spawn of the Spider God as an adventure - just imagine what kind of awesome things would need to be in it just to justify that title. ;)

My experience with converting characters from d20 to Legend seems to match your own - it's a good idea to start out with a rough conversion based upon a mechanical conversion, but this can lead to some strange results that you often need to adjust by hand. It does tend to be more of an art than a science in the end.
I'm hoping the new layout of SGB is sharper though. I have campaigned for the return of the possessions, description and tactics for all NPCs. After all, I spent the better part of a month making sure those were converted across as well and edited where applicable. Some of the NPCs have a few extra tid-bits which they were missing in the original adventure as well, because it made sense to put those things in there when every other NPC/Monster was given something like that previously.

When I write something about an NPC you get 3 basic things: looks, personality and background. That's standard and something I've done for years on my professional work for other companies.

As for Spawn of the Spider God, well. If Morten writes it for d20 I'll convert it :)
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby The Wolf » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:08 am

DamonJynx wrote:
Prime_Evil wrote: It does tend to be more of an art than a science in the end.
I think that's a truism that applies equally to creating NPC's from scratch as it does converting them from one system to another. Once you get past the basic mechanics...well it's all about...feel, atmosphere and ultimately, the needs of the story/adventure. The trick is to not end up with 'vanilla' NPC's.
So true. I always like to put a hook or a bite in the history or personality of an NPC. I should do a conversion to Legend of a d20 (13th Age) character currently in my Swords and Sorcery homebrew just for the heck of it.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby ryhopewood » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:59 am

Just to check.... if I purchase the PDF now from Drivethru will I automatically be entitled to the revised PDF when it becomes available? Presume the answer is yes but I wanted to make sure.

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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby DamonJynx » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:07 pm

Unofficially, yes. Mongoose are very good at notifying customers when PDF's are updated.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby The Wolf » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:40 pm

I can't speak officially Ian, I am but a freelancer. However, Matt did mention that the PDF would be updated and people who bought the original SGB will get auto-updated.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:54 pm

YEAH!

I haven't been very active on this topic, but I have been following it with fascination.

I never bought the original, so the Mongoose version is my first view of this wonderful topic. Wolf, thanks for all your work on this it is great stuff.

After reading through SGB, I have drastically rethought how my own setting will be run. I have "The Red Empire of Thytis" in my setting and S&S is definitely how I want to portray that nasty place. This book has been a great inspiration for me.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby taxboy » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:53 am

errr, where can i buy it from please?
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby DamonJynx » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:02 am

taxboy wrote:errr, where can i buy it from please?
You can pre-order the hard copy (Does the, pre-order the book get the PDF free, offer still stand, Matt?) from Mongoose direct, or you can purchase the PDF via Drivethrurpg.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby taxboy » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:20 am

DamonJynx wrote:
taxboy wrote:errr, where can i buy it from please?
You can pre-order the hard copy (Does the, pre-order the book get the PDF free, offer still stand, Matt?) from Mongoose direct, or you can purchase the PDF via Drivethrurpg.
The rewritten version?

Cheers
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby Prime_Evil » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:41 am

taxboy wrote:
DamonJynx wrote:
taxboy wrote:errr, where can i buy it from please?
You can pre-order the hard copy (Does the, pre-order the book get the PDF free, offer still stand, Matt?) from Mongoose direct, or you can purchase the PDF via Drivethrurpg.
The rewritten version?

Cheers
If you buy the PDF, it looks like you'll get both - the current version (warts and all) right now, and the revised version when it is updated.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby taxboy » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:05 am

Cheers, already bought the original, still waiting on my physical copy...
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby The Wolf » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:56 am

Once Mongoose sorts out the new layout and puts the re-written version together, including the poison appendix etc - the PDF will be updated. If the PDF version is good enough (which I hope so after all this) I presume Matt'll work out a print schedule for the hard copy.

:)
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby The Wolf » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:02 am

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:YEAH!

I haven't been very active on this topic, but I have been following it with fascination.

I never bought the original, so the Mongoose version is my first view of this wonderful topic. Wolf, thanks for all your work on this it is great stuff.

After reading through SGB, I have drastically rethought how my own setting will be run. I have "The Red Empire of Thytis" in my setting and S&S is definitely how I want to portray that nasty place. This book has been a great inspiration for me.
Thanks for the support. Reading things like this are the reason I keeping doing what I do. :)

Hopefully you'll find even more inspiration in the pages of the re-written SGB. The magic chapter alone is a complete re-write focussed on S&S themes, icorporating the taint section of the previous release and adding a bunch of power sites and a few other things including a modified version of the Heart Rip which literally tears the skeleton from inside someone and animates it to serve the caster.

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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby tarkhan bey » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:10 pm

I'm a little disappointed that this thread has reached it's conclusion. It's been a while since a thread on this forum has really been of interest to me. :cry: SGB is definitely a must buy for me now, in hardcopy as well as PDF. I really have enjoyed reading about your thoughts and ideas Wolf. You should maybe consider writing something yourself that is based on Xoth. You really seem to have gotten the feel for SnS. :)
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby The Wolf » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:08 am

I have the Zankharan Sea in progress, which is being playtested under a number of systems. I'll be working on a Legend version down the line. The setting is a Sword and Sorcery setting with a twist, it's also based on a few S&S short stories that are being written for a couple of anthologies at the moment.

So far I'm using 13th Age for the core system due to the system's simplicity and Icons design. However Legend is my next port of call in that regard, because Legend has some really good solid design behind it and whilst Xoth is relegated to only Sorcery Magic, I'm thinking of letting Common Magic off the hook with Zankhara.

Thanks again for the kind words and I hope you enjoy the new SGB book.

I'll probably start up a new thread to cover Song of the Beast Gods. I don't mind this thread being used for some more S&S discussion re: SGB though.

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Re: The Spider God's Bride - Re-write DONE, FINISHED!

Postby Bifford » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:51 pm

Due to funds in my Paypal account I have now purchased this (didn't own the original RQ version so this will be all new to me).

I look forward to getting notice of the updated version also! :D

I would have preferred to buy the hardcopy....but can't afford to spend physical cash on that atm so that will have to wait until I can. Until then the PDF will have to do! :D

Many thanks once again for all your hard work Wolf! :D

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